Bishop of Southwark: 'Bished as a newt'

Mass at my heavenly church of St Anne's Kew this morning was chacterstically high and, after the children came back in from Junior Church, noisy too. Then at the end Father Nigel gave his flock a little unexpected bonus track. He lowered his eyes and said: "Now I want you all to say a prayer for our Bishop, Tom Butler, and his wife, who as some of you may realise have been in the papers recently." He didn't elaborate on why, just urged caution before any of us rushed to judgment, and, with characteristic generosity of spirit, repeated his admonition to pray. Never before have I known such silence in our beautiful church, packed as usual with standing room only. It was a silence of stunned profundity and wonderment. Father Nigel had left them all flummoxed, wondering indeed at what on earth had happened. Because as became clear from the number of people who discreetly probed me over coffee afterwards, few in Kew read The Mirror (from whom my headline is borrowed), The Sun or The Mail on Sunday. And if they read The Sunday Times, as I would hope, they clearly do it only after church. Definitely worth reading though is Stephen Bates in The Guardian. I also did a piece with Sean O'Neill, who is Irish and was actually at the Embassy party in question. "I don't know the Bishop of Southwark personally," he told me. "But there was a very garrulous clergyman there, walking around saying: 'I am the Bishop of Southwark'." Was he slipped a glass of poteen? This is something being considered at Lambeth Palace. One member of staff there, who barely drinks, found himself laid out flat on a sofa and with memory loss after having one glass of this 90% proof drink while out for dinner with three Irish bishops. Read Joe Joseph's wonderful leader on Butler. Maybe this is something our own Dr Tom should look at soon. And you just must have a laugh at Wannabe priest's interpretation of events. Even I had not thought of this...

F

Well I suppose the only way we were ever going to see this liberal bishop 'Slain in the spirit' was through the intervention of some alcoholic agent. One contributor to Christians on the Internet wonders if the Bishop was wearing his amethyst episcopal ring when the incident occurred. He says Greek scholars will understand that amethyst, traditionally worn by bishops, means: "I am not drunk."

The original report on my blog, as told by Southwark's office, was that he was mugged. Understandably, I feel a little bruised myself, having seen the story develop into a splash in the Mirror after the mugging was broken first on my blog and I trustingly believed the bishop. Maybe the bishop suffered genuine memory loss, but my credulity of this is not aided by the fact that he has insisted from the start he will do no interviews, even though a lengthy interview with Stephen appeared in the Guardian. Maybe he cannot remember doing that either....

"Bished", of course, was in the 1950s a Jennings-style term meaning done for, useless, no good. I am not saying poor Tom Butler is now bished as well as bashed, but this case does raise some interesting issues.

An inconvtrovertible fact is that what he claimed about the incident has been shown to be untrue. According to the information he conveyed to his spokeswoman Wendy Robbins, which she conveyed to me when I first enquired about the story early last week, he was asserting that he had been mugged.

Well if being thrown out of a Mercedes, in Crucifix Lane of all places, after throwing the owner's children's toys off the back seat constitutes being mugged, I suppose he was. He claimed he could remember none of this and I choose to think he was not being less than truthful in his mugging story. "I'm the Bishop of Southwark. It's what I do," was his memorable response when the owner of the car confronted him after the car alarm went off on the Mercedes.

According to the reports, he had drunk copious amounts of Portugese red wine at the embassy function he attended in Belgravia beforehand. It was the Irish embassy. Possibly, he was drunk. One of the symptoms of extreme drunkenness is the "alcoholic blackout". Few people without a drink problem suffer these frightening episodes, even if they drink heavily at Christmas functions. "Normal" people who have never known what it is like to be addicted to alcohol might find this difficult to believe, but when blackout kicks in it is possible to lose an entire evening, day, even a week from one's memory. The excess alcohol effects some weird chemical reaction in the brain which disables the memory receptors. It also disables the usual societal inhibitors, so it is during those times that alcoholics do the most inconceivably awful and embarrassing and sometimes hateful things. Many murders, as prisoners will testify, are committed in blackout. It is understandable that those left with cleaning up the mess afterwards are sceptical when the perpetrators of these heinous acts claim not be be able to remember, but it is true. You really cannot remember a thing after blackout.

I don't understand the process but I certainly understand the effects. It has to be a possibility that the Bishop suffered one of these blackouts. So it would be unfair to assume the mugging story was a lie. It seems far more likely to me that he genuinely believed he had been mugged, given the evidence of the black eye, bump on head and missing mobile, briefcase and glasses. (It was of course the briefcase's appearance in the back of the Mercedes that alerted the owners to the illustrious nature of their temporary passenger.)

The other possibility is that he has suffered a cerebral medical problem, a minor stoke or something similar. This would be truly awful. But there seems no doubt, from the reports in the Sunday papers, that he had been drinking.

One issue, as far as I can see, is how this reflects on him given his own treatment of clergy in the Southwark diocese. As someone who has worshipped for the past 15 years at the very least at three different churches in the diocese, and who meets clergy from Southwark and neighbouring dioceses regularly at General Synod, I have been witness to the effects of Bishop Tom's inimitable pastoral approach to his own errant and indeed inerrant clergy. Put simply, as one lay person said to me when they telephoned yesterday: "Ruth, I feel sorry for the man but let's face it, if my vicar had done this he probably would not have survived."

To me, this all represents a fantastic opportunity for the Bishop, who naturally enough, heads the Church of England's social responsibility arm. (Doesn't God have a fantastic sense of humour sometimes?). He should not resign. Or at least not yet. He is 66 for goodness sake, and surely cannot be that far of retirement in any case.

But let's remember the churches' advertising campaign this Christmas, one done with the support of the Church of England and other mainstream churches. The posters show an empty beer glass, with the face of Jesus etched out in the foam on the side. Let's hope the Bishop of Southwark can now also be inspired to find Jesus in his cups, and take advantage of the powerful opportunity for witness to the nation that this represents. In the end, all I can personally do is look with awe at the headlines, whisper, "There but for the gace of God...", and pray.

Update: On Monday 11 Dec, Richard Kay in the Daily Mail reported that Bishop Tom actually started his career as a junior clerk in a brewery. Just before heading for the Irish Embassy, he gave a eulogy in Southwark cathedral to the late John Young, head of the Wandsworth family of brewers. Kay wrote: "Bishop Butler recounted to the 500-strong congregation the occasion when he had industriously finished his day's office work before noon and was caught reading a library book by the brewery director. The bishop recalled that he has never forgotten the subsequent words of the warning he received: 'Sonny, always try to pace your work out to last the day.' Sound advice: perhaps the bishop would do well to apply it to his drinking in future."

My own reflection on that is that if he was in a brewery with time to spare, and ended up in the library reading a book, we can safely assume he does not have a drink problem!

Comments

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[The Reverend Paul H. Morgans]

I can, to some extent, empathise over the Bishop of Southwark, the Right Reverend Dr Tom Butler, enduring amnesia, an assault, a black-eye and a fall, following the reception at the Irish Embassy, since I too, endured the same after a Luncheon following a Wedding in August 1999.

However, unlike, Dr Butler, my Bishop and Diocese made me 'homeless, incomeless and jobless,' indeed, it seems to me that 'if' the Church of England follows the example of the Church in Wales, that is, the Bishop and Diocese of Llandaff, then Dr Butler can anticipate an incomprehensible and incongruous 'Life on the Dark Side of the Cross' - abandonment ruthless and spectacular by the hierarchy of the Church, eight years on antidepressants and DWP Incapacity Benefit and rehousing in a flat above a 'Fruit & Veg' shop on a council housing estate notorious for alcohol and drug abuse etc.

Furthermore, he also can anticipate being denied access to his 'home' following the Diocesan Parsonage Board boarding up the doors and windows. Thereafter, the citation to appear before the County Court as a 'tresspasser' in his 'home' and the judgement ordering him to 'refund' the Church Commissioners arears in rent amounting to c. £4,000.

Despite neither civil nor ecclesiastical charges against him, he also can anticipate being denied access to the right to a fair trial and natural justice in the Ecclesiastical Courts. Functioning in the Church in the future is, of course, untenable, since applications are blocked at the outset by verbal references from the hierarchy, indeed, '[b]y his own conduct [Tom] has, I'm afraid made it quite impossible to return to any 'status quo ante.'

'If' the Church of England follows the example of the Church in Wales, that is, the Bishop and Diocese of Llandaff, then the Bishop of Southwark, the Right Reverend Dr Tom Butler, can anticipate an unchristian, unethical and unjust outcome.

[Chuck Unsworth]

The Bishop is now reported as saying that he has 'no recollection' of lying in the back of someone's car chucking childrens' toys about.

I've had a few evenings like that, myself, when it's all been a bit of a blur...

Mind you, if someone has been making this story up the Church should investigate much more closely, with a view to protecting the reputation of the good Bishop

[Bill Corr]

Bishop’s are no longer made of MARTYR’S stuff

[Steve]

Textual critics may have spotted that the supposed event in Southwark shows all the signs of having been fabricated from bits of an old story about one-time Foreign Secretary, George Brown. Brown was attending a British Embassy reception in Peru when the band struck up and he noticed a vision of loveliness accross the ballroom in a beautiful red dress. Brown crossed the room to invite the apparition to dance with him. Came the reply: "I shall not dance with you Mr Brown, for three reasons. Firstly, you are drunk. Secondly, this song is the Peruvian National Anthem. And thirdly, I am the Cardinal Archbishop of Lima."

[Chris Gillibrand]

PS

It seems that cooperation on temperance in the 19th century was that great rarity of positive fruits being born out of ecumenism, as opposed to endless dialectic on intractable positions. However, one would hesitate to follow Cardinal Manning into prohibitionism via teetotalism. He quit drink in 1872 but many of the Westminster clergy charged his views on the subject to be heretical.

Such social cooperation should, however, be seen as means to sanctification, rather than as an end in themselves (for, after all, as long as there is humanity on earth, individuals will have problems with the demon drink).

As a Primitive Methodist elder, my grandfather signed the pledge, until one day he announced in a sermon that if Jesus was alive he would positively avoid the particular chapel. He was sacked, turned to moderate drinking which did him absolutely no harm, as he died at the age of 91.

[Bob Finbow]

Christopher Salter,
If members of the clergy will not stand up to their bosses over something as fundamental as resisting bullying, what hope is there that they will stand up for any other important principles? They are clearly in the wrong job! You are right, I am unfamiliar with the intricacies of the organised church but one thing is certain - anyone who holds abiding by principle as an 'article of faith' (as I would expect the clergy to do) owes it to themselves and to their ‘flock’ to stand up and be counted when the occasion arises. Perhaps if they did, the church would be better thought of than it is at present

[Chris Gillibrand]

Since the Church quite rightly prohibited the sale of indulgences, there are no modern day pardoners for the Bishop to turn to (in Chaucer's days the conspicuous purchase of an indulgence may have saved the Bishop's career), I suggest for his penance that he reads the Pardoner's Tale by Chaucer.

There he will read on the effects of alcohol.

"Your tongue is loose, your honest care obscure;
For drunkenness is very sepulture
Of any mind a man may chance to own.
In whom strong drink has domination shown
He can no counsel keep for any dread.
Now keep you from the white and from the red,
And specially from the white wine grown at Lepe
That is for sale in Fish Street or in Cheap.
This wine of Spain (or in the Bishop's case, whiskey of Ireland), it mixes craftily
With other wines (brews) that chance to be near by,
From which there rise such fumes, as well may be,
That when a man has drunk two draughts, or three,
And thinks himself to be at home in Cheap,
He finds that he's in Spain, and right at Lepe,-
Not at Rochelle nor yet at Bordeaux town...."

[flabellum]

Let us pray that the Bishop's experience will work as great a transformation in him as that wrought on Mr Scrooge in "A Christmas Carol".

[Keith Downer]

"A Christian, like everyone else, must take full responsibility for his actions, his triumphs and his misdemeanours in this world".

Alistair, I share your distaste for the actions of anyone who protects those who abuse children and fails to ensure that they are brought before the courts, whoever they are and I stand by the statement above. I can no more justify those clergy who fail to report such people to the authorities than the people who actually commit the offence.

Where children are concerned, these is absolutely no dispute in Christian teaching; mistreat a child and "it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea" (Matthew 18:6). The church authorities concerned with "the practice of quietly moving serial priestly child abusers from parish to parish, and not reporting them to the police" have demonstrated a serious misjudgement in taking that course of action.

There should be no cover-up under any circumstances. Similarly, if Tom Butler is guilty of prosecutable offences as a result of his apparent drunkenness, he should be charged and prosecuted. A belief in Jesus does not furnish you with an immunity from the laws of our community.

[Christopher Salter]

No, Bob, no.

The whole point of much of what has been said is that a clergyman's job is NOT like any other job: there are NO employment rights, as has been held time after time in court and tribunals. So certainly you can tell your Bishop to boil his head if intimidating: he can then act with personal vindictiveness to block your career from that point, or if you don't have a freehold (do you know about freeholds Bob?) you can be sacked on the spot, with no redress whatever.

I'm sure that it is this powerlessness of clergy, together with many examples of dictatorial behaviour by bishops which is behind much of the underlying hurt in many of these posts.

Bob, the world of the church is a surreal one where the rules you take for grsnted simply don't apply. For example, to get your job, did you take an oath of allegiance to the monarch? Or an oath of canonical obedience? Taken as pieces of harmless historical ritual, until it comes to the crunch!

[Peter]

Because Tom Butler is middle-aged, middle class and white his antics are seen as a source of amusement, rather than a symptom of 'Yob Culture'. A young person without his advantages who behaved in a similar way would quickly find they had an ASBO, if not a spell in a Detention Centre.

[Alistair McBay]

"A Christian, like everyone else, must take full responsibility for his actions, his triumphs and his misdemeanours in this world."

Keith, once again you place your faith in your fantasy world before harsh reality. How many Christian bishops and/or archbishops have taken this lofty and noble 'full responsibility' of which you speak in relation to the practice of quietly moving serial priestly child abusers from parish to parish, and not reporting them to the police?

Or does the taking of full responsibility for one's actions in such cases specifically preclude going to jail for aiding and abetting child abuse, on the basios of one rule for pious men in frocks, and another for everyone else?

Since no Christian bishop (and no sects, please, we're British) has gone to jail for this very serious practice, executed globally and for decades, then it would be laughable if Tom Butler were to suffer police punishment for his little brush with Satan, wouldn't it?

[Bob Finbow]

No Ruth, I'm afraid none of your points amounts(in my book) to anything more than entertaining behaviour by a dignitary. As with any other job, a clergyman can tell his boss to go boil his head if he tries intimidation. Crawling into the wrong car can be an amusement although, I admit, in choosing a Merc he picked a car whose owners tend to have a terminal lack of humour. But for me, to come out with a line like "I'm the Bishop of Southwark. It's what I do" when accused of drunken behaviour absolves him of all sins. How can you not collapse with laughter on hearing that?

[Tim]

Whatever happened to 'Do not judge, or you too will be judged' (Matthew 7:1).

Apparently in the modern Bible it's been replaced with 'One strike and you're out'.

[Keith Downer]

"As for Keith's response to whether or not the devil was involved, depending on what you believe about god's existence or otherwise, it simply suggests that if you are religious, you need take no personal responsibility for your behaviour towards others."

Wrong again, I'm afraid, Alistair. How is it that you manage to be so far off base, so many times? You must work really hard at it!

A Christian, like everyone else, must take full responsibility for his actions, his triumphs and his misdemeanours in this world. In fact, if it was the Bishop involved in the reported incident, I would expect Tom Butler to issue an apology to his friends and parishioners for allowing himself to get into a situation where - whatever happened next - he found himself leaving the reception a little worse for wear!

I think, Alistair, that you have nothing to fear from "Old Nick" himself given that you represent no threat whatsoever to him but those who have devoted themselves to God's service - such as the Bishop of Southwark - should always be aware that they are in the front line when it comes to the attention of the opposing forces - be it atheists, such as yourself, Alistair, or the personification of Evil, the Devil.

[J Pearce]

Is it not possible that - in one of those alcohol-induced moments of "clarity" one can reach given the appropriate amount of Hooch - the good Bish imagined himself as an Anglican version of Santa Claus?

I mean, c'mon, we've all done it...

[Stephen Marsden]

from cwnews.com :

Episcopal Tom whilst a-stew
Mistook an automobile for a loo
He fell on his pate
Yet had the composure to state
'I'm the Bishop: It is what I do'

[Dr Irene Lancaster FRSA]

Jill, you are absolutely right, we are always prepared for flight (I have even given a lecture on this subject, in York, or all places - not a place of good memories for Jews).

And it is true, in the diaspora we do tend to eat too much when under stress and that it is the cure-all for every ill.

Here, on the other hand, people are very health-conscious, and tend to be hyper-critical and argumentative instead of fressing. They are also direct to the point of rudeness and love to indulge in amateur psycho-analysis, even when unqualified.

If you access my blog, you might find it fun, or not, depending on how Israeli I've become. But I was genuinely chuffed to have received a Chanukah card from the BBC just now, thanking me for all my help and support throughout the year.

Having got over the initial shock, and not being the type to pour myself a stiff whiskey, I just had a coffee instead and thought: 'There really is a God in heaven and He has a tremendous sense of humour'.

As for the card, I shall cherish it forever.

Happy Christmas to all of you.

[Julie]

It must be very unfortunate for the bishop, but the vitriol has been entertaining. I especially liked the total lack of pause, sympathy or effect elicited from some people by the suggestion that the bishop's behaviour may have been due to a 'cerebral' event, perhaps even a mini-stroke - 'see how these Christians love one another.'

Must try harder. Could do better. :-)

Is Ruth really suggesting that the bishop might be an alcoholic?

Isn't every cleric entitled to a 'Father Ted' moment? Good Christian People have had their fun, but shouldn't they give the man a break now? It is like watching a dog with a bone.

[alistair mcbay]

If an otherwise law-abiding drunken youth with a tattoo and piercings had got sozzled and broken into a car, then sent police on a wild goose chase investigating his report that he'd been mugged and had some personal property stolen, then we would probably have heard howls of protest about the breakdown of society, demands for an Asbo to be issued, calls to bring back the birch, and how the lad ought to have had some moral fibre instilled in him in a 'faith school'. But an Anglican Bishop does it, and.....oh, well.

Of course the Bish can get 'dusted' if he wants, to use the word for it in the Telegraph article on the subject today. He'd be a rare cleric that didn't do so at least once in a while, if the Telegraph article is to be believed. But the vast majority of happy clerics don't appear to have such a blatant disregard for other people's property, or for wasting police time.

It would indeed be nice to get to the truth, but I am sorry to say that the Bishop doesn't appear overly keen to help that process of discovery. In Scotland a few weeks ago, Archbishop Conti of the RC church said we all had to put conscience before duty once in a while. I thought that was rich from a representative of an institution that singularly failed to do just that over decades of priestly child abuse, but perhaps he had a point.

As for Keith's response to whether or not the devil was involved, depending on what you believe about god's existence or otherwise, it simply suggests that if you are religious, you need take no personal responsibility for your behaviour towards others. God, if you believe he exists in accordance with Christian tradition, has created the convenient scapegoat.

I wondered what would happen next after the Ted Haggard affair, and we got Bishop Tom's tipsy travels. That story is not even cold yet, and now another evangelical Christian has "come out" in the US, with 54-year old Paul Barnes using a video to tell his 2,000 plus worshippers that he's been gay since the age of 5. See :

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/dismay.as.us.evangelical.leader.confesses.to.gay.relationship/8687.htm

The devil's a workaholic, it seems

[Jill]

Irene, I was interested to hear what you had to say. None of my Jewish friends are real drinkers, but will stuff food down you at any hour of the day or night. I had often wondered about this, until I heard (from a Rabbi, so don't jump at me for my ignorance) that it is deep within the Jewish psyche to be always prepared for flight.

Very Rude, a merry Christmas to you too, but not too merry, you don't want to end up like the poor bish.

[Julia Napolitani]

I note that your piece claims that Dr Butler, when questioned as to what he was doing in the Mercedes, replied: "I'm the Bishop of Southwark. It's what I do."

However, having heard two witnesses interviewed by the BBC yesterday (Radio 4 PM programme and News at 6pm), both claimed that the man they supposed to be Dr Butler referred to himself as "The Bishop of Woolwich". The Bishop of Woolwich is the Rt Revd Christopher Chessun.

One witness also described the man in the car as having a cut clearly visible above his eye. From the photo above, it does not appear that Dr Butler sustained such an injury.

I would join others on this thread in suggesting that Dr Butler, if he hasn't already done so, provide a blood sample for independent testing forthwith, since it looks increasingly to be the case that he has been "done up like a kipper".

[Revd John Scott]

The Bishop Of Southwark is a decent man and has never to my knowledge done anything in the Diocese to warrent the awfull comments that have appeared about him.
I feel that he was mugged poor man (aged 66) is not a good age to be beaten up, and was concussed. He needs to be supported, not vilified. Bishop Tom don't turn your back on your fellow clergy, or they will stab you in the back.

[PG Eriksson]

Michael Bowden, you are spot on there. Bp Butler obviously tried to put up a smoke screen and has not even apologised for his drunken behaviour to his faithful in his Diocese. If he has any honour his request for an early retirement should be on its way to Lambeth Palace.

[PG Eriksson]

Michael Bowden,
You are spot on there. Bp Butler obviously tried to put up a smoke screen and also,l where is his apology to all his faithful for his behaviour? If he has any honour his request for an early retirement should be on it's way to Lambeth Palace

[Malcolm Bowden]

Spiked or not, he must have known he had been drinking, surely? However, no mention of that or the party when the original "mugging" story appeared if I recall correctly. I still feel we have been fed a half truth - at its most charitable - and he should resign.

[Martyn Bowler]

In view of +Tom's stance on drunkenness within the clergy of his Diocese the matter must be thoroughly investigated or he must resign forthwith.

[Leon Greenwell]

I suspect that the Bishop may well have been
'spiked' - but because of his position this should be investigated; particularly in light of the 'polonium' situation. Was a blood test taken; and if not why not?
Incidently, regarding Chris Slater's posting, I know that the Southwark office seems to willfully ignore its own communicants, both by testimony and by personal experience

(rg writes: the possibility that he was slipped a glass of poteen is something I explore, and is being considered at Lambeth Palace, in my latest story on this. See the latest link in post above.)

[The Revd Kevin Scott]

Just for the record, as Area Dean of Kingston I have spoken to almost all of the Anglican clergy in this Deanery since this story broke. Everyone of those with whom I have spoken acknowledge first that we have no idea what the truth is about this matter. Second, that even if there is any truth to it all of us share a common fallibility. Third, if Bishops or anyone get drunk, then someone supportive should be asking why. Self-righteous accusations help nobody.

rg writes: thank you for this, good to have your comment here I really appreciate you taking the trouble to join in.

[Bob Finbow]

To RG, certainly "tough love" is a viable option when someone's done something seriously wrong. But what's this guy done? Drunk a bit too much. Has he assaulted anyone? No. Intimidated anyone? No. Has he even insulted anyone? No. All he's done is drunk a bit more than he can handle - hardly a hanging offence!

rg writes: speak to some of the clergy in southwark before saying so confidently that he's never intimidated anyone. And mightn't the owner of the car have found it a bit intimidating, to find him in the back seat chucking toys around and claiming to be a Bishop? Wouldn't that behaviour count as insulting at the very least?

[Oonagh Toner]

"All those of us who bridle at the preachy,self-righteousness of so many Christians peddling their superior moral standards are having a well-deserved chuckle." No, we're not, Very Rude Person, because when I read this blog I read the preachy self-righteousness of a Christian peddling her superior moral standards.

(rg writes: Hey Oonagh, I hope you don't mean me...)

[Leon Greenwell]

While suspecting that the Bishop might well have been 'spiked', I am intrigued (as a former resident in the Diocese) by the account by your correspondant of the curious
'non-existence' of the office - I have experienced this myself; and, I happen to know, have senior churchmen of impeccable repute. Surely a blood-test must have been taken, and this should inform any inquiry.

[T. McLoughlin]

Perhaps if the Bishop had been involved in more sinister behaviour, then he may have had the benefit of the full "Cover Up Service" offered by the Church.

[Very Rude, Unkind Person]

Oh Jill you can always be trusted to miss the point! I was expecting you to supply the self-righteous preaching of your superior moral Christian standards, not to gloat at one of your bosses getting hurt. I wasn't gloating anyway, just having a little chuckle. Merry Christmas Jill.

[Bernard Parke]

Even Bishops are Human.

[Jill Wright]

Hang on a minute, people! Did none of you ever make a mistake and drink yourselves silly? OK, Bishop Tom is an idiot because he didn't appear to realise how strong the wine was....but line this mistake up alongside the good he's done throughout his life - and will presumably continue to do - and there's no contest! He's human - just like the rest of us.

[Julia Napolitani]

It certainly appears that the Bishop has made no shortage of enemies, not a few of whom have managed to find their way quickly to this page. No doubt they and some others in Canterbury and Downing Street would be glad to be rid of this 'turbulent priest'.

I trust Dame Eliza enjoyed the party...

[Robin Bather]

Did anyone else see the BBC article where a letter from the Ministry of Defense was found in the Bishop's briefcase.
How strange!

I was not aware that priestly alcoholism was a problem in the UK but in Catholic Mexico it is well known. Perhaps it has something to do with unmarried priests not having a woman to control their urge to drink. My wife always seems to act like an accountant whenever we are at a party in someone's house......"That's the third whisky you'd had!".....said in an accusing tone.
But seriously, England does seem to have a grave problem with alcohol abuse and binge drinking.

[Rev'd Peter Lear]

I have known + Tom for all the time he has been in Southwark. I do not know whether he was drunk, or had a minor stroke, or was on medication which disagreed with the wine. Or was simply tiddly and stressed and tired. I very much doubt that he lied when he said he had no memory of the event. I was + Price's Chaplain when + Tom got a bad press from one clergy meeting in a deanery. He was robust yes, and direct. And most of the clergy who moaned were simply being wet, many of whom had never had to experience a line manager telling them to get a grip, do the work or change jobs.
I have great respect for +Tom, who has always been totally straight-forward in all the dealings I had with him, personally and 'officially' in the Area Office.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the incident, I suspect some of the posters here need to remember John 8:7.

[Dr Irene Lancaster FRSA]

Maybe the Anglican Church should introduce what we Jews do to incorporate drinking into our lives. Twice a year (apart from small doses every Friday evening and Saturday lunch time for kiddush), we have holidays which are designed for 'controlled' drunkenness. And when I lived in north Manchester, even the police were forwarned and did not arrest.

These two holidays are Purim (Feb-March), which reenacts the story of the book of Esther, when the wicked Persian/Iranian PM, wanted to annihilate the whole Jewish community, and Simchat Torah (September-October), when we start the New Year of bible readings and also pray for rain, (which incidentally came down buckets here in Haifa, immediately afterwards).

For all its other problems, there does not seem to be much drunkeness in Israel and maybe the above has something to do with it.

[Malcolm Bowden]

Is not the real issue the fact that someone on behalf of the Bishop lied in suggesting that there had been a mugging and mentioning nothing at all about the drink? That surely would be a resigning matter for others in high office.

[G. Ian Goodson]

There are some very unchristian comments here. Whatever the Bishop may or may not have done, in the past, is not relevant. He is being accused of drunkenness but there are no witnessess prepared to put their names to the story. Entertaining this charge is unbiblical. Has anyone considered that the Bishop may have had a drink, may have taken some fresh air, may have been mugged and may be suffering from concussion? The facts are not established, but don't let them get in the way of a good story.

[David Lazell]

Ealing Studios would have made a film on the Boozy, Benevolent Bish. Trouble is, he sounds so self assured, so 'I am right, so there' on 'Thought for the Day'.
Old enough to remember broadcasters like the beloved Rev. W. H. Elliott of Chester Square, and Rt Rev Michael Ramsey, one longs for men of the Spirit, even if frail as Elliott was. I hope Tom Butler apologises to the Merc owners, and ponders

[Gerry Lynch]

I see that nobody is blaming the Irish for hosting the party!

Oh, I don't know Fr. Raspberry, everything is our fault at the end of the day!

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who thinks getting trollied occasionally (especially at this time of the year) is a sign of being an alcoholic. But anti-booze prudery is the fashion du jour of the British media so I suppose we're just going to have to put up with it.

I wish my diocesan Bishop well in recovering from his bump and suggest somebody bundles him into a taxi next time.

(Oh, and if he was a real drinker he'd have had no problem finding his way home after a couple of bottles of red wine - by bus, plane, train or automobile.)

[Raspberry Rabbit]

I see that nobody is blaming the Irish for hosting the party! Or the Portugese for confecting the brew which drove the Bishop to the ground. Or the Diocese and the ungrateful clergy who drove the Bishop to drink in the first place. European solidarity we'll call it. There appears to be little ecclesiastical solidarity to match it. The energy behind the story comes from whole cloud of witnesses, clergy and lay, who are willing at this juncture to stand up and say that they've been slighted by the bishop at some point and that he's getting what he deserved. The drink is a separate issue. Being a clergyman myself I can say that I've gotten 'pished as a newt' with at least two of my former bishops. Rare but delightful moments which I wouldn't trade for the world - I'm loath to describe this as being indicative of a 'drink problem'. That's just the obligatory Miss Grundy side of the British and the British media showing. What I would say is that we always made sure the Bishop got home safe and sound. The saddest element to this story is that nobody was willing or able to tuck +Southwark into bed.

[Allan Ashworth]

It is a sad state of affairs for the CofE. What the church, and country, needs is leaders who live their lives by what they preach. Everyone makes mistakes but sometimes as a consequence of these, action is necessary. In this case the action surely is step down.

[Gerry Lynch]

Does being hammered at a Christmas party now mean you have a drink problem? Or is there more we are not being told?

[Bob Finbow]

Leave the poor guy alone. Anyone who has never got falling-down drunk is surely too boring an old fart to pass judgement. It certainly doen't mean you "have a drinking problem" You know the old joke - I've not got a drinking problem - I get drunk, I fall down - no problem! I'm no Christian but even I know Jesus turned water into wine, not vice versa.

rg writes: sometimes, Bob, you know, tough love is the only answer.