JPII in 'trip hop' trance video

A composer who began his career writing the scores for Italian horror movies has set the life of the late John Paul II to music. The result, as we report on our online faith page, is a DVD described as 'trippy' by the Guardian and the latest in the succession begun by John, Paul and Ringo in The Spectator. Composer Simon Boswell describes it as 'trip hop'. My own description would be 'ambient'. Here are a couple of clips:

The DVD website is here. This is backed by the Vatican, and is all part of the campaign for the canonisation of JPII. One of the requirements for canonisation is that there be a 'cult'. This DVD, which takes its title from the traditional chant to make a person a saint, the chant that was shouted and placarded at JPII's funeral, is overtly intended to encourage his cult.

Speaking of Catholics, I've also done a story today on why Scotland's bishops are so angry with Gordon Brown. Not a good idea for poor Gordon to get the entire Catholic population of Britain on his back. But I can see the problems there would be in unpicking the Act of Settlement. It is possible that if we repealed it here, and say another Commonwealth country decided not to, the monarchy could be split. Hardly bears thinking about it. But better brains than mine are paid lots of dough to grapple with this kind of thing. Surely a way could be found round it. It does seem ludicrous that this Government bends over every way to end discrimination against every minority group going, yet seems unable to remove the one glaring and historic legalised discrimination against Roman Catholics.

But I bet Gordon won't change his mind. Repeated research shows that dialogue gets nowhere if opinions are already entrenched. It just leads to more conflict. The Anglicans are witness to this. Maybe the Prime Minister and the Catholic bishops should all go on these new conflict management courses for clerics designed by Cambridge university and starting next month. I understand some extremely senior Anglicans have been approached and have already signed up. The aim is to help them talk to each other about issues where they are in 'deep disagreement' without precipitating schism. I can hardly wait to see the resulting research papers.

Comments

[Anthony]

I am half way through reading Yallop's Power and Glory. I am no fan of JP2, and I left the RC Church twenty years ago. However, I was keenly interested in all the things that went on and are described in the book. Whilst much of what Yallop says of P2 (Italian Freemasonry) etc is true, he is wrong on JP2 in so many areas. Yallop contradicts himself throughout the chapters I've read. Initially he insinuates that JP2 was a Communist stooge and sympathetic with the Coms, but then later Yallop attacks JP2 for being in the way of Communism. It is obvious that Yallop doesn't really know the man or his life, but he's determined to present a negative image of the late pope to make a reputation for himself as the great iconoclast. It reminds me of the kid who says, look at me, look at me, and his note to fame is the ability to mud rake on a dead dude. The pope wasn't perfect, but he was a good man, and to say he was a friend of tyrants, mafia and crooks, as well as causing the deaths of thousands of people, is crap. One fundamentalist Christian website says JP2 never cared about the unborn, whilst Yallop says that his pro life stance was over the top. Be damned if you do and be damned if you don't. I hope JP2 is in a better place. He looked terrible in his last days. Oh yes, by the way, many of Yallop's sentences don't make sense. He should at least get some one who is a good proof reader to check his syntax and to make sure that the threads of his arguments flow consistently throughout the book.

[David Smith]

Geoffrey Smith:
'As usual, you are nothing but a windbag, as Mr Pearce amply demonstrated in the drubbing he gave you over your homosexual reorientation activity.'

'If, that is, you can drag yourself away from your all-consuming homosexual reorientation business.'

Rather than being supportive of a Christian ministry that helps those with a homosexual orientation in their desire to change back to their God-given sexual orientation, it seems that you are now joining in with those, including 'J', who have lined up against this.

It couldn' be, could it, that with you their arguing skills have been rather more effective than those of mere ranting trolls, as you like to brand 'J' in particular?

[George Parr]

Can't be bothered David, other than to say that I merely sought to point out the high level of mutual abuse barely disguised as 'argument' and mostly based on what I personally perceive as nonsense. Rancour between faiths which, in its expanded form, has far wider implications is what my post is about. Was it anything important you were attempting to address? As you say many points of view are accommodated on this blog - unless they disagree with yours or mine of course!

Surely 'you are beginning not to make sense' and 'you've temporarily lost touch with reality' are examples of the ad hominem comment you continually complain about?

[Geoffrey Smith]

Do let me know when you are taking Mr Yallop's 'evidence' to the European Court of Justice, Mr Smith.
I shall be MOST interested to watch the course of events. If, that is, you can drag yourself away from your all-consuming homosexual reorientation business.

[David Smith]

George Parr:
'As usual, winning the argument is more important than debating the so-called 'issues'.'

Then perhaps you'd like to tell us all just what contribution you feel this post of yours makes to the issues raised in this thread?

[David Smith]

Geoffrey Smith:
'Drubbing, Mr P? Then why do I feel that I have won the argument?'

Probably because you've temporarily lost touch with reality.

'You have stopped being obscenely offensive in your posts; clearly, my critique of your style has struck home and you have seen the error of your ways.. I NEVER DEBATE WITH A TROLL.'

Pity you haven't done the same, Geoffrey.

'Too late, my friend. Catholic teaching, 'hardline' or otherwise, will eternally endure.. '

Actually, it's truth that will endure, according to the Bible. That's not the same thing at all.

Where Catholic teaching is concerned, it seems that only endures until the hierarchy tell us they've come up with a new idea.

[Geoffrey Smith]

"Nothing compared to the drubbing you've had in regards to hardline Catholic teachings, I would suggest".
- J Pearce, 18 NOV 2007, 21:38:32

Drubbing, Mr P? Then why do I feel that I have won the argument? You have stopped being obscenely offensive in your posts; clearly, my critique of your style has struck home and you have seen the error of your ways. Too late, my friend. Catholic teaching, 'hardline' or otherwise, will eternally endure, notwithstanding your frenetic agenda. Oh, in case our friend, Mr David Smith, thinks this is the beginning of a debate between us, he can think again. I NEVER DEBATE WITH A TROLL.

[Geoffrey Smith]

Well, Mr Smith, are you going to take your 'evidence' to the European courts? Or to the UN, perhaps? Just leave out the guff and answer the question, there's a good chap.

[George Parr]

Peace and love abounds! No finer example of an unbridled microcosm of wordly division brought about by fervent religion exists! Those sent by God to re-orientate shame-faced homosexuals into bible-thumping Christians continue to exchange meaningless abuse with Catholics convinced they are being pursued by Satan. As usual, winning the argument is more important than debating the so-called 'issues'.

Now watch whilst they unite against perceived dissenters for the greater good! (Lighten up gents!)

[David Smith]

Geoffrey Smith:
'As usual, you are nothing but a windbag, as Mr Pearce amply demonstrated in the drubbing he gave you over your homosexual reorientation activity.'

Nothing more to offer than personal abuse, Geoffrey?

First, according to you, J Pierce is nothing but a malicious troll and not worth talking to. Now, apparently he displays sufficient powers of argument and deploys sufficient weight of evidence to give me a 'drubbing'!

I can't think of more patent evidence that someone has lost an argument than their beginning to contradict themselves and resorting to personally abusing their adversaries. Can you?

Still, you can take comfort in being just like the Mother Church you so worship. When the finger of overwhelming evidence is pointed at her, rather than rationally prove the contrary, she merely imperiously screeches 'liar' at her accusers, and 'lies' at their evidence.

[J Pearce]

"As usual, you are nothing but a windbag, as Mr Pearce amply demonstrated in the drubbing he gave you over your homosexual reorientation activity."

Nothing compared to the drubbing you've had in regards to hardline Catholic teachings, I would suggest.

[J Pearce]

"I suggest you log on to Mr Yallop's website and read how this gentleman praises himself to the highest heaven. Self-praise is no recommendation, Mr Smith, something you would be well-advised to bear in mind."

Unlike the Catholic Church, eh Geoff? I mean, that only claims to be the one, true, Church of God. No big deal, clearly.

[Geoffrey Smith]

"The Vatican has issued blanket denials of all his [Yallop's]allegations, but to date it has not proved, or even tried to prove, any of them ill-founded by adducing evidence to the contrary. Yallop's challenge to them to this effect has not been taken up".
- David Smith, 14 NOV 2007, 14:10:14

Why should it? Is Yallop a prosecuting attorney employed by the CPS? Are you accusing the "Vatican" of homicide? If so, who in particular? Who do you think did the dirty deed, Mr Smith? I believe an accused person must be considered innocent until proven guilty, right? So then, where is your proof? Are you going to take it to the European courts, demanding that a charge should be brought against the "Vatican"? As usual, you are nothing but a windbag, as Mr Pearce amply demonstrated in the drubbing he gave you over your homosexual reorientation activity.

[Geoffrey Smith]

"David Yallop wrote a five hundred page book stuffed with supporting evidence...."
- David Smith, 14 NOV 2007, 09:22:36

Five hundred pages of "evidence" and no positive conclusion at the end of it all? Just an allegation?
And you call that "investigative journalism"?
You may not be aware of this, Mr Smith, but Mr Yallop is an extreme left-wing socialist (maybe a Marxist) who writes for the 'New Statesman'. Even you know that this journal is fetidly anti-Catholic, and most unlikely to publish anything that favours the Catholic Church. I suggest you log on to Mr Yallop's website and read how this gentleman praises himself to the highest heaven. Self-praise is no recommendation, Mr Smith, something you would be well-advised to bear in mind.

[stephen clark]

The issue about the relationship between the Commonwealth and the monarchy is of course a live one. The people of Australia were unable to embrace a freedom from the monarchy only a few years ago, (not because we do not consider ourselves independent but rather because we didn't like the model of republic. In many senses we seems more wedded to monarchy than the British.
Thank goodness that the Sovereign has no formal link with the Anglican Church of Australia though in many parts of the popular mind she does!

[David Smith]

Geoffrey Smith:
'you should be as wise as Mr Yallop and keep your calumnies to yourself.'

Under siege from all sides in your attempts to defend the indefensible - the Vatican down the ages, don't you think it might be a good idea to take a break? You're beginning not to make sense.

David Yallop wrote a five hundred page book, stuffed with supporting evidence, alleging that Pope John Paul I was murdered. How, to use your terminology, is that 'keeping his calumnies to himself'?

[Geoffrey Smith]

"He didn't insinuate anything, Geoffrey, etc, etc."
- David Smith, 14 NOV 2007, 14:10:14

Perhaps, Mr Smith, you can supply us with the information that Mr Yallop wisely omitted from his book?
If so, do tell. I'm sure we are all agog to learn the lurid details. If not, you should be as wise as Mr Yallop and keep your calumnies to yourself.

[David Smith]

Geoffrey Smith:
' "The Power and the Glory" was written by David Yallop. He also wrote a book entitled "In God's Name", in which he insinuated that Pope John Paul I was murdered and that the murder was 'covered up' by the Vatican. Rather forgetfully, Yallop omitted to tell us who was responsible for the Pope's untimely death. But then, he never did have a good memory.'

He didn't insinuate anything, Geoffrey. He alleged it full on, and produced hundreds of pages of carefully researched evidence in support of this allegation.

The Vatican has issued blanket denials of all of his allegations, but to date it has not proved, or even tried to prove, any of them ill-founded by adducing evidence to the contrary. Yallop's challenge to them to this effect has not been taken up.

He alleged poisoning, and pointed to many people in the Vatican and beyond whose careers would have been ruined by John Paul's intended and imminent cleansing of the Augean Stable that the Vatican was then and still is today, and who would have every reason to be complicit in a plot to murder him.

Of course the poisoning was not 'proved' by a proper autopsy on the dead Pope's body. This was not ever allowed. And just in case the clamour for it might become irresistible, those who wished to prevent it insisted that no blood at all be drained from his body (the normal practise) nor any organs removed, and had him stuffed with embalming fluid within a day of his death - to make it impossible for any of his blood to be extracted and tested.

[David Smith]

Kevin:
' ..I believe Mother Theresa said she didn't feel the presence of God for most of her adult life - not that she didn't believe in Him. She's not been formally recognised as a saint yet either and all of these recent "revelations" have been taken into account in assessing her case.'

If, as Mother Theresa said, you turn to God over many decades and feel that for you there's 'nothing there', I think its fair to say that you have neither actually found Him nor, in any real personal sense, believe in Him.

If you follow official Roman Catholic teaching, which is effectively belief by ritual, you will find... the Roman Catholic Church, and not God Himself. Mother Theresa was, in her private honesty, living proof of this.

The pronouncements by the Vatican hierarchy following the revelations from her diary show that they intend to ignore her unbelief and make her a saint anyway. The political calculation is that her popularity is still high enough to increase theirs by doing so.

If they haven't allowed her own request that her entire diaries be destroyed at her death get in their way, they aren't likely to let a small inconvenient truth like this do so either.

[David Smith]

Clavis:
'So Ruth, do you regularly "kindly" send anti-Papist propaganda literature to your correspondents? It would be useful to know since you are the "Religion" correspondent.'

Given her job, as you might expect, Ruth receives many complimentary copies of books of all kinds and views on the subject of the Church and religion. From time to time she kindly lists those that she does not have time to read or want to keep and gives them away on her blog to those who ask for them.

It sounds as if you think that she should go through them all and burn the ones that do not line up with your view, rather than send these out. Perhaps you would like her to censor her entire blog to your liking as well?

I can't know for sure where you are coming from, but I think you should not be so quick to snipe at Ruth in the rather unpleasant, interrogating way that you have.

And actually... one man's 'anti-papist propaganda' is another man's truth. On this blog there is thankfully an ability to accommodate many beliefs and points of view.

[Clavis]

I'm referring to David Smith's post

(rg writes: now I understand! Every now and again I do a book blog, where I give away books that publishers have sent me. If you look down the index on the main page of the blog under books, you'll see a couple of them. Yallop's books was one of several hundred I've given away. Readers of the blog email me and request books, and David requested that one. I think you would have more cause for concern if I had decided to keep that book and give it pride of place on my bookshelf....)

[Clavis]

So Ruth, do you regularly "kindly" send anti-Papist propaganda literature to your correspondents? It would be useful to know since you are the "Religion" correspondent.
(rg writes: sorry, I am not sure what you are referring to.)

[J Pearce]

"Trip hop"?!?!

No no no no no! This is not trip hop! Said composer is having a laugh and clearly knows nothing about what he's talking about Where are the beats?! No, I suspect that its his attempt to "get down with the Catholic massive" and to portray a doddery, reactionary institution as something slightly more relevant than it could ever hope to aspire to.

Very astute of you Ruth, the first video could conceivably be categorised as ambient music. The second is revolting schmaltz. Muzak of the worst order. In other words, highly appropriate to its subject.

[Julia from Illinois]

Who wrote The Power and the Glory? Gordon Brown?

David SMith, you need a shrink.

[Kevin]

I think the JPII's Pater Noster (in the second) clip should be released as a single. It's funkadelic - with a latin twist!

David. Karol Wojtyla wasn't more than 25 years old during Nazi occupation of Poland. On the night of August 6th 1944 he narrowly avoided a Nazi round-up of men of fighting age. He was studying in an underground seminary in defiance of the Nazi's at this stage. What were you doing before you were 25? As little as me?

Also, I believe Mother Theresa said she didn't feel the presence of God for most of her adult life - not that she didn't believe in Him. She's not been formally recognised as a saint yet either and all of these recent "revelations" have been taken into account in assessing her case.

[Geoffrey Smith]

"The Power and the Glory" was written by David Yallop. He also wrote a book entitled "In God's Name", in which he insinuated that Pope John Paul I was murdered and that the murder was 'covered up' by the Vatican. Rather forgetfully, Yallop omitted to tell us who was responsible for the Pope's untimely death. But then, he never did have a good memory.

[David Smith]

More politics, propaganda, p.r., and manipulation of the masses by the Vatican and its pawns.

Nothing new here.

One of the things that the excellent book The Power and the Glory that you kindly sent me, Ruth, brought out was that John Paul II rose to prominence in Poland by avoiding upsetting the wrong people - most notably the Nazis. Shades of Pius XII?

It is surprising that Mother Theresa is included in this material - after it was revealed that she only pretended to believe in God for most of her adult life. But then I suppose if you have already 'made someone a saint' it's a bit difficult to row back.