Benazir: 'I am not afraid of death'

'I am not afraid of death,' Benazir Bhutto told me when I interviewed her for the Daily Mail in November 1985. She was just 31 at the time. 'My religion teaches that I will rejoin my father and my brother when I die. It is the living who have to suffer the grief and the pain,' she said. In an attempt to pay tribute, although nothing I can say will ever be enough, I've reproduced the full interview below.

l

Daily Mail, Wednesday November 6, 1985

The setting could not have been more British. Plush deep pile carpets stretched wall to wall, gilded mirrors and tasteful oils adorned the walls. There were just two things to suggest the luxury Knightsbridge home did not belong to a leading name from Burke's peerage.

One was a tiny photograph of the ex-President of Pakistan on the antique coffee table. The other was the stunning Eastern beauty, seated on the edge of the sumptuous Chesterfield, elegant hands clasped, and speaking in perfect Oxford English.

'My great-grandfather was poisoned to death aged 28 by his opponents. My father was murdered, then my brother. My aunt died a few days later. Three generations have gone in 50 years. It's beyond human comprehension.'

The huge eyes of Benazir Bhutton, 31, filled with tears as she talked of her family's tragic destiny in the peaceful setting of SW1. It seemed a million miles away from the country where sworn enemy Zia ul Haq, Pakistan's President General, the man she calls her father's murderer, has incarcerated her for five-and-a-half years out of the last eight.

Earlier this year she flew out to Pakistan from exile in Britain, which she calls her second home, promised freedom by a regime she has dedicated her life to oppose.

Yesterday she was back in London, experiencing her first human contact for three months, as the latest tragedy in her short life unfolded.

Zia had placed her under house arrest within hours of her return to Pakistan. But she has been allowed out of the country to testify at a court inquiry in France into her brother's murder.

Pakistan is the world's...[typo deletion]... apart from the United States. But Benazir's family history runs parallel in line with the Kennedys. Like them, she has been born into a double destiny of power and tragedy. She knows in her heart that she is unlikely to die a natural death.

But her mission in life is to lead her father's party in the battle to restore democracy to her troubled country. 'It is expected of me,' she said. 'I begged and pleaded with my brother Shanawaz to save himself. But I knew he had taken certain decisions. He planned to return to a certain country. I will leave you to guess which one. He had to be stopped and he was stopped.'

Detectives believe Bhutto, 27, may have been the victim of an international plot involving Pakistan, Afghanistan and Syria. His exiled Afghan-born wife, the lovely 25-year-old Princess Rehana, has been arrested and charged with failing to assist a person in danger. Her husband was poisoned by a substance used by Syrian Secret Service agents.

'His wife was at home when he died. Undoubtedly she can be of some help to the French police,' said Benazir.

The one-time president of the Oxford Union with politics degrees from Oxford and Harvard has led her father's Pakistan People's Party since his execution in 1979.

At Oxford, she had tea with Mrs Thatcher, then leader of the Opposition. Her life changed over night when she went down from Oxford and returned home.

'I remember my father telling me the university days are the best days of your life. I remember staying up all night drinking black coffee to meet essay deadlines and the fear of exams. I thought then, can these be the halcyon days? I look back and they really were.

'I was ignorant of the hardships and difficulties that were to come. Even marriage now seems out of the question. Most Eastern girls marry after education. Mine was over 1977. Since then I have either been in mourning or in detention.

'I studied freedom and politics. But I only really understood them when my freedom was taken away and I saw my country's structure demolished.'

Despite her tragic past, she is determined to return in three months to a country where 'propagating the view of a political party' is a crime. She repeated her challenge to General Zia Ul-Haq, to run against her in a free election. She plans on her return to address public meetings and rallies.

But she has no illusions about what awaits her if she follows this course. 'Immediately or within a very short time, I will be arrested.

'All there is to do is watch Pakistan TV. In London I can talk on the phone, write letters and reach people through the media. I have a kind of freedom, and usually when I feel free, I feel light.

'But this time my heart is heavy because I am coming her for this inquiry. I cannot sleep at night because I have visions of what happened in France.'

She bitterly regrets not knowing her brother better. 'He left home a little more than a boy. I saw him sometimes when I was in exile in Europe.

'He was so charming and full of humour. Imagine what it was like for me when I first heard that my sister-in-law had been arrested. I was in detention, listening to the BBC. There was a short announcement. One thousand questions came into my mind, what, why, where is my mother, where is the baby? None were answered but I was helpless, it opened all the old wounds.'

Some of her questions will be answered today when she talks to her mother, seriously ill from lung cancer in France.

'I went through all this with my father. Now the thought of another inquiry, another investigation, another court case is unbearable. My brother's death has broken our backs but we just want to get to the bottom of it.'

Benazir knows that when she returns home she could face imprisonment or worse.

'I am not afraid of death. My religion teaches that I will rejoin my father and my brother when I die. It is the living who have to suffer the grief and the pain,' she said.

'It is sometimes difficult to go on. But my strength likes in my country. I believe I have a responsibility to the people of Pakistan. They believe in our family, we are all they have. I have no choice.'

She was one of the most courageous and remarkable women I've ever met. On the one hand, it is scarcely believable that she's gone. On the other, it is equally incredible she survived as long as she did. As you will see if you read on, for more than 20 years, she has been anticipating her own execution. Pakistan has always been close to our family's heart. My grandfather, Alan Gledhill, a judge and lawyer in India, was one of the servants of the Crown involved in partition, and in forming the constitution of Pakistan. He would be weeping today, were he still alive.

Comments

[Kate]

Joe: In the context of 'colonisation' or the Islamic preference for exclusive ghettos it is meaningless to cite the existence of "churches" [buildings] as conflicting evidence.

What the bishop and, it seems, those (see below) with experience of such areas, are identifying, is intimidation and violence against non-Muslims.

Ed Husain author of The Islamist and a former activist in Hizb ut-Tahrir writes in the Telegraph:

"I was born and raised in east London, parts of which can be "no-go" areas for white people. Those who like to pretend otherwise should ask John Payne and his friends why they were attacked ... in Stepney last year.

Payne has serious brain injuries ... the conviction of three Asian men, jailed on Friday ... has had scant attention in the media ... the gang shouted "white honkies" and attacked him with machetes. Local police have confirmed an increase in such race crimes. ... " [end quote]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/
main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/01/13/do1303.xml

What is extraordinary is that, even Husian employs the deflective euphemism 'Asian'! It is clear that the area is Muslim ...

"... three of Payne's attackers - Sodrul Islam, Delwar Hussain, and Mamoon Hussein, have been convicted ... following a trial at the Old Bailey ..: as many as thirty men were involved... apparently motivated by anger at seeing a group of five white people drinking in a pub on the Clichy estate in Stepney.. regarded as "their turf".
http://atangledweb.squarespace.com/
the-racist-crimes-you-wont-hear-about-on-the-bbc.html

Whatever the 'official' reasoning, it is illuminating that the only report of this trial and conviction has been in the Daily Mail. Had the crime been white on Asian, it would be headlined.

Further, my attention has been drawn to Yasmin Alibhai-Brown in the Evening Standard last year: most non-whites serving time in jail for racist crimes against whites justify their actions by reference to crimes against "their people". She points out that of the most serious racist crimes, whites are the victims in 83% of cases!

And, some personal experiences recounted on

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/ukcorrespondents/
holysmoke/jan08/bishop-backs-call-to-prayer.htm

rather confirm the 'no-go' assertions, e.g:

"BRADFORD IS A GHETTO ...Try walking through Manningham, as I have. If you're white, the racial abuse is intolerable I've had eggs thrown at me simply walking to the A&E.."

Or try http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/
'Bishop warns of 'no-go' areas for non-Muslims' -

one contributor "spells out" the areas of which you profess ignorance:
A - C - C - R - I - N - G - T - O - N
B - L - A - C - K - B - U - R - N
B - R - A - D - F - O - R - D
B - U - R - N - L - E - Y
C - O - V - E - N - T - R - Y
D - E - W - S - B - U - R - Y
G - L - A - S - G - O - W -
K - E - I - G - H - L - E - Y
O - L - D - H - A - M
R - E - A - D - I - N - G
R - U - S - H - O - L - M - E
S - L - O - U - G - H
T - O - W - E - R - H - A - M - L - E - T - S
W - A - L - T - H - A - M - S - T - O – W
L-E-I-C-E-S-T-E-R
L-U-T-O-N

OR - From the Guardian (Business section):
NO-GO AREAS FOR FIRM THAT DELIVERS in BAGHDAD

"DHL's intrepid couriers promise speedy delivery .... but it seems that certain parts of Britain's inner cities have become no-go areas ...

... some neighbourhoods..., including [areas in] London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow, have been blacklisted because of the risk of couriers being attacked.

Canning Town and Custom House areas of London, for example ...

A DHL spokesman, Matthew Zamoyski, said:

"Mostly, it has been a case of threatening behaviour, or people surrounding the vehicle and making life difficult. ... DHL was one of the first companies to open in Baghdad after the fall of Saddam Hussein ..."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/
2005/jun/20/crime.uknews

None so blind perhaps, as those who do not wish to 'see' anything which contradicts their own 'cosy' versions of Islam.

[Kate]

Joe: In the context of 'colonisation' or the Islamic preference for exclusive ghettos it is meaningless to cite the existence of "churches" [buildings] as conflicting evidence.

What the bishop and, it seems, those (see below) with experience of such areas, are identifying, is intimidation and violence against non-Muslims.

Ed Husain author of The Islamist and a former activist in Hizb ut-Tahrir writes in the Telegraph:

"I was born and raised in east London, parts of which can be "no-go" areas for white people. Those who like to pretend otherwise should ask John Payne and his friends why they were attacked ... in Stepney last year.

Payne has serious brain injuries ... the conviction of three Asian men, jailed on Friday ... has had scant attention in the media ... the gang shouted "white honkies" and attacked him with machetes. Local police have confirmed an increase in such race crimes. ... " [end quote]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/
main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/01/13/do1303.xml

What is extraordinary is that, even Husian employs the deflective euphemism 'Asian'! It is clear that the area is Muslim ...

"... three of Payne's attackers - Sodrul Islam, Delwar Hussain, and Mamoon Hussein, have been convicted ... following a trial at the Old Bailey ..: as many as thirty men were involved... apparently motivated by anger at seeing a group of five white people drinking in a pub on the Clichy estate in Stepney.. regarded as "their turf".
http://atangledweb.squarespace.com/
the-racist-crimes-you-wont-hear-about-on-the-bbc.html

Whatever the 'official' reasoning, it is illuminating that the only report of this trial and conviction has been in the Daily Mail. Had the crime been white on Asian, it would be headlined.

Further, my attention has been drawn to Yasmin Alibhai-Brown in the Evening Standard last year: most non-whites serving time in jail for racist crimes against whites justify their actions by reference to crimes against "their people". She points out that of the most serious racist crimes, whites are the victims in 83% of cases!

And, some personal experiences recounted on

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/ukcorrespondents/
holysmoke/jan08/bishop-backs-call-to-prayer.htm

rather confirm the 'no-go' assertions, e.g:

"BRADFORD IS A GHETTO ...Try walking through Manningham, as I have. If you're white, the racial abuse is intolerable I've had eggs thrown at me simply walking to the A&E.."

Or try http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/
'Bishop warns of 'no-go' areas for non-Muslims' -

one contributor "spells out" the areas of which you profess ignorance:
A - C - C - R - I - N - G - T - O - N
B - L - A - C - K - B - U - R - N
B - R - A - D - F - O - R - D
B - U - R - N - L - E - Y
C - O - V - E - N - T - R - Y
D - E - W - S - B - U - R - Y
G - L - A - S - G - O - W -
K - E - I - G - H - L - E - Y
O - L - D - H - A - M
R - E - A - D - I - N - G
R - U - S - H - O - L - M - E
S - L - O - U - G - H
T - O - W - E - R - H - A - M - L - E - T - S
W - A - L - T - H - A - M - S - T - O – W
L-E-I-C-E-S-T-E-R
L-U-T-O-N

OR - From the Guardian (Business section):
NO-GO AREAS FOR FIRM THAT DELIVERS in BAGHDAD

"DHL's intrepid couriers promise speedy delivery .... but it seems that certain parts of Britain's inner cities have become no-go areas ...

... some neighbourhoods..., including [areas in] London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow, have been blacklisted because of the risk of couriers being attacked.

Canning Town and Custom House areas of London, for example ...

A DHL spokesman, Matthew Zamoyski, said:

"Mostly, it has been a case of threatening behaviour, or people surrounding the vehicle and making life difficult. ... DHL was one of the first companies to open in Baghdad after the fall of Saddam Hussein ..."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/
2005/jun/20/crime.uknews

None so blind perhaps, as those who do not wish to 'see' anything which contradicts their own 'cosy' versions of Islam.

[joe]

There are at least two Anglican churches, one Methodist, a Polish church and a URC in Cheetham. And probably Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches as well. There is at least one synagogue and the Manchester Jewish museum. For all I know there may be Buddhist, Hindu and Bahai places of worship.

Funny that, given the our honoured colleague's contention that it is a no-go area for other religions. 'No-go' clearly attracting in Irene's mind the opposite meaning that the majority of other people would attach to it.

The disgusting murder of an individual is hardly evidence of symptomatic race crime. Moreover, it shows nothing about the area being a 'no-go' area for other religions, unless you know something about the policeman I don't know.

And if I met John Reid I might also tell him what I thought of him. Not because of his religion but because of the disgusting policies of hate perpetrated by his government.

0+0+0 = 0 evidence of no-go areas.

[Dr. Irene Lancaster FRSA]

Areas of Cheetham Hill, Greater Manchester and a large part of the Crumpsall area, where an illegal Algerian immigrant murdered an unarmed police officer in an unprovoked ricin attack.

Remember?

That's just for starters. Then there are areas near Leeds, also in Blackburn, Burnley and the most famous in London, where a Muslim citizen told then Home Citizen John Reid that he wasn't wanted in a part of East London and how dare he set foot there.

This resulted in a famous Today interview with John Humphrey. Ruth has the details.

[joe]

I'd like to know where these no-go areas actually are. I've never been anywhere - even inner city areas with a large Muslim population - where there are no churches.

[Tom Jackson]

"Seems we are already headed down the dhimmi path in this country - the liberal left elites seem intent on surpressing any dissent against Islamic incursion..."

Couldn't agree more, JP. This is really an 'Emperor's New Clothes' situation with the respected Bishop of Rochester cast in the role of the young boy who points out that what everyone else is duped into believing is misleading.

We are a liberal, democratic country and unless the average Muslim compromises their faith to the point where it is meaningless, it is impossible to reconcile Islam with a society and culture such as we have in the UK. So-called 'multiculturalism' where Islamic teaching and beliefs are concerned is an unachievable objective.

And what is more important, as the Bishop has highlighted, Islamic beliefs and culture represent a real danger to our way-of-life and to our national identity by diluting and compromising the very foundation and structure upon which the stability and security of our society is based.

Those who criticize Israel and the measures that nation takes to protect her citizens from Islamic terrorism from both inside and outside her borders, should consider carefully a perfectly realistic scenario for the UK where similar threats and atrocities result in us having to strengthen our resolve and adopt a less liberal-minded, tolerant and passive approach to how we protect that which we value and wish to maintain.

[Dr. Irene Lancaster FRSA]

Not only was the Bishop of Rochester shouted down by Muslim spokesmen, but also ridiculed by a white Bishop (Stephen Lowe) and a white MP (Hazel Blears) from Greater Manchester where I lived until 2006, before emigrating to Israel.

These two apologists for Muslim racism are claiming that there are no no-go areas, even though their own police force in the area is so aware of it that warnings are extended to members of the Jewish community, such as myself, who were/are moving in, to avoid certain areas.

In addition it was common knowledge that cars deemed as belonging to Jews were targetted by Muslim youth, as were members of the Jewish community itself, its synagogues, schools and cemeteries.

As everyone knows this and Channel 4 has even produced a programme on it (The War Against Britain's Jews?) why is one of the local MPs in the worst-afflicted area and one of Manchester's Bishops denying it?

This blog might give you a clue:

http://irenelancaster.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/01/the-dignified-b.html

[Mike Homfray]

No, Irene, this column shows that we are not taken in by your hysterical Zionist propaganda.

[JP]

"It's the religious values, stupid."

Or, put another way, Islam and liberal democracy are fundamentally incompatible. It’s a bit rich to criticise Israel and her policies, when she has been under actual physical threat since her inception. It’s a wonder she still has a functioning democracy at all, given that in this country, two bombs go off, habeas corpus virtually gets suspended and our parliament becomes a stooge for the New Labour dictatorship.

I note that the Bishop of Rochester has spoken out about "no go" areas in certain areas of Britain now, where (according to him), Islamic fundamentalism is contributing to the prevention of community integration.

He was predictably shouted down by various Muslim spokesmen and accused of trying to foster religious hate. I note also that the story has been muted in the MSM. Seems we are already headed down the dhimmi path in this country - the liberal left elites seem intent on surpressing any dissent against Islamic incursion...

[emanuel appel]

a letter from America

Dear All,

I see that, among some of you, the idea that Jews may be in the right is offensive and it speaks of a depraved upbringing, relating to your parents and to your culture.

You can't bring yourselves to admit that Pakistan, once part of your Empire, will not accept your political values because of Islam. Compare it with India next door, same dark faces, same funny way of speaking English, yet accomodating to parliamentary democracy. It's the religious values, stupid.

Israel's parliamentary system is more "democratic" than yours even though she has been independent only since 1948. It suits us to have a Parliament ( the Knesset ) set up on ideological lines even though it makes it real hard to govern since this fractionalism makes it necessary to set up coalition govts.

The shooting of Yithak Rabin was the act of an undsiciplined individual who felt Rabin was selling Israel out. All I can say is that the present PM is 10 times more worthy of the term "kapo" and fate. Yet, this single act has to be presented as "proof" that we're the same as the Moslems. Hardly.

An honest response from you is to say that you don't like either and wish to sever relations with both. If I were head of Israel, I'd limit our relations with you to the commercial attache level.

My views are necessary to balance Dr. Irene's comments. She's the nice Jew.

[Dr. Irene Lancaster FRSA]

This column is becoming dhimmitude personified:

http://irenelancaster.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/01/the-total-and-u.html

[Mike Homfray]

Irene: that comment really wasn't worthy.

You have plenty of extremists and 'former' terrorists on your side too - many have served in government and some still do.

Benazir Bhutto was also a Mualim. Do you think she would have agreed with your regular attacks on Islam and your refusal to see the very same sort of aggressiveness in Judaism?

You are all as bad as each other.

[emanuel appel]

a letter from America

Dear Ruth,

One of the things that dirties religion and simultaneously gives it much influence is the idea of the everafter.

It helps to preserve one's poise if one believes that the filthiest act of Moslem terror will enable one to rejoin one's dear relatives instead of being forever separated from them. It's quite a high price to pay.

[Rick Beekman]

Why is it This Lady is Being Glorified By The Media?

One U.S. Columnist Said She Had "Star Power" That she Even Reminded him of A Young Elizabeth Taylor! This Lady Stold Money Was Driven From Pakistan...She is a Muslim and told The Media Prior to her Death That No Muslim can Assasinate A Woman Or They Would Go To Hell. I Got News If Anyone Commits Murder Muslim Or Whoever They Go To Hell FOr Murder UNLESS They Repent Unto Jesus Christ. He Said so..Read Luke 13 Verses 3 To 5.

I Say Let This Assasanation Be A Wake Up Call To All Who May Believe You can Appease Terrorists. They Are All Servants of Satan And Like Cockroaches Rats and Other Vermin Need To be Taken Down....

[SAM]

I will not pretend I know something worthy of mention, but I must say your words and the article you published here, after so many years, have touched me.

It was, indeed, a text that gave me a new insight.

Thank you for these words on Bhutto.

[Bartholomew]

Dr Irene Lancaster (FRSA) "I wonder who will be the first to call present-day Islam the 'religion of peace' after this brutal suicide bombing."

What was the motivation of the man who murdered Yitzhak Rabin again?

[Tom Jackson]

"The main suspects in the assassination are the foreign and Pakistani Islamist militants who saw Ms Bhutto as a Westernised heretic and an American stooge, and had repeatedly threatened to kill her".

This is the opening comment from Jeremy Page in his Times article today. It should strike fear and concern into the hearts of those complacent members of Western societies who still ignore the inherent dangers and the potential time-bomb of Islamic teaching.

These, no doubt, well intentioned members of Western culture, would argue that this is all a local issue, significant only in Pakistan and maybe the surrounding region. Many still view Islam as they would Christianity; a belief system which is separate from the political system.

It may be our children, or possibly, our grandchildren who finally have to come to terms with the Islamic determination to impose their culture and beliefs on as many of the World's population as they can reach. We may witness planes crashing into skyscrapers or Tube trains being blown up; we may even start to see our politicians who oppose the spread of Islamic influence in our country being targeted.

But it is inevitable, in the future, that the Islamic militants who are suspected in the murder of Ms Bhutto (supported and funded by the legitimate Islamic governments and religious leaders of countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia) will be used to eliminate those who, like Ms Bhutto, are seen as a threat to maintaining Islamic influence and progressing Islamic expansion throughout the World.

[David Palmer]

Thank you for this post Ruth.

What a brave and courageous woman Benazir Bhutto was.

Apropos the issuing of 'A Common Call between Us and You' from Muslim leaders to the Pope and other Christian leaders, just what are these Muslim leaders going to do about the state of their own countries?

Right now throughout the Muslim world Christians, let alone Muslims who care for the state of their country's citizens as surely Ms Butto did, are under increasing pressure from the Islamists. They have even stopped the Church bells in Gaza.

[Chris Gillibrand]

I think a contemporary poem by a Nicholas Gordon could not be more appropriate.

Make my death a canticle for peace.

Evil has no greater friend than anger,

Making ready converts to its cause.

On me think but of beauty as you pause,

Remembering the service of a stranger

In giving life to purchase your release.

Armies live according to their art.

Love of life at times requires death,

Defending what would else find hungry jaws.

As you enjoy the gift of every breath,

Yet mourn for me with morning in your heart.
_____
PS
The world, as we would know it, has never been in greater danger, yet many sleep.

[Dr. Irene Lancaster FRSA]

Whilst Muslim suicide bombers are murdering their own co-religionists and those of other religions and none, which religion gets in the neck and is constantly misrepresented? Why Judaism of course.

This 'willfully false misrepresentation' of the facts on the ground in Israel had to be corrected by the person who was completely misreported, the former Chief Rabbi of Ireland:

http://irenelancaster.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/12/irish-times-wil.html

I wonder who will be the first to call present-day Islam the 'religion of peace' after this brutal suicide bombing.