Ben Elton: BBC 'scared' of Islam.

Comedian Ben Elton has accused the BBC of allowing 'vicar gags' but not 'imam gags'. In an interview with James Cary of Third Way magazine he admits to believing in almost nothing, even though his kids attend a local church school. His recent novel Blind Faith explores some of the issues around faith in the post-modern age. He believes people should be taught the essentials of Christianity, even if only for cultural reasons. But he also believes 'lack of faith' should be taught in schools. I've posted some of his quotes below.

He refutes a suggestion in a recent newspaper interview (The Times, I'm afraid to say...) that he is a Christian.

'God, that really is hopeless. No, I've never come close to making a statement like that. That is completely not what I feel. I'm not remotely a Christian. I may have said - as I've often said - that there's much to be admired in the better bits of Christian doctrine - and the rest of it needs serious thinking about, you know. Just as we're all constantly assured of how much splendid peace talk there is in the Koran.

'Well, I'm sure there is - though I know more about the Bible, because I was brought up in an age when you were still taught it. But Blind Faith is not about Christianity or Islam, it's actually about the banality of a new faith really: the cult of the individual, the idea that we are all our own little gods. I think it's quite clever the way the "preachers" are able to twist decent faith-based ideas into a way of worshipping yourself - you know, if God made Man in his image, then surely Man is like a god and should be treated as such in everything he thinks and does.'

Asked by Cary whether he is then an atheist, he responds:

'I'm only an atheist inasmuch as .... Traditional religion seems to me extraordinarily banal... I'm an atheist when it comes to a God with a human personality with whom we can personally communicate, describe, look at the history of and consider the future of. Obviously, if you want to define "God" as the mystery of the universe before which we should have some real sense of our own smallness and take some view of our actions based on that, then I'm all for it; but the one who listens to prayers - I don't believe in that.'

He says he likes going to formal church services occasionally, to enjoy the poetry of the readings and join in the hymns, and because his children are at church schools.

'I don't think there's any harm in it. In fact, I think there's an enormous value in learning about Christianity if you happen to be British, because it has without any question been the influence on our history and our culture. Otherwise, you're going to find it very hard to understand Shakespeare, or most paintings pre-1900 - or, at least, your enjoyment of them will certainly be improved by knowing the stories on which they're based, the dilemmas that provoked them.

'However, I think that lack of faith should also be taught. I think the concept that faith in itself is a good thing should be questioned from day one, which it isn't. There's a presumption on chat shows and on the news that if you're a religious leader you are in some way already halfway up to the moral high ground and your opinion has more relevance than anyone else's.'

He also believes the BBC is too frightened of Islam and of jokes about Islam to let them pass. Asked about the new law on religious hatred, and whether too much deference was being shown to religious people, he says:

'I think it all starts with people nodding whenever anyone says, "As a person of faith..." And I believe that part of it is due to the genuine fear that the authorities and the community have about provoking the radical elements of Islam. There's no doubt about it, the BBC will let vicar gags pass but they would not let imam gags pass. They might pretend that it's, you know, something to do with their moral sensibilities, but it isn't. It's because they're scared. I know these people.'

After referring to a controversial satirist who did not make jokes about Islam because of the lack of shared reference points, Elton continues: 'I wanted to use the phrase "Mohammed came to the mountain" and everybody said, 'Oh, just don't! Just don't! Don't go there!" It was nothing to do with Islam, I was merely referring to the old proverb, 'If the moutain won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to the mountain." And people said, "Let's just not!" It's incredible. I'm quite certain that the average Muslim does not want everybody going around thinking, "We can't mention you. We've just got to pretend you don't exist because we're scared that somebody who claims to represent you will threaten to kill us.'

And he makes the important point that people have no right not to be offended. So I do hope none here finds this little clip of Elton in a religious comedy twosome with Stephen Fry offensive. Of course, it is about Christianity, so I feel fairly safe posting it....

From TimesOnline, here is a podcast of Ben Elton at Edinburgh last summer. And check out this clip from a Hamas TV puppet show.

One person who is not afraid of taking on Islam is the General Synod's Alison Ruoff, as we report today. And talking of jokes, I loved this April Fool from Babyblue.

Comments

[andrew holden]

I can get this to run on YouTube itself but not embedded in these pages.

Anyway I did enjoy the clip. Brilliant as ever from these two.

Bought 'Blind Faith' to read on my next holiday.

[Tom Jackson]

If anyone doubts the real concern and fear when it comes to making an observation or comment on Islam that a Muslim might find offensive, remember Salman Rushdie.

[Chris Gillibrand]

The problem is more acute for Catholics, as it is always open season on Catholics. If they said the same things about Muslims, one can ponder the consequences.

However, you are absolved as the clip amounts to a brilliant satire on the agonies of post-Conciliar religious life in the Catholic Church.

[Alistair]

"The problem is more acute for Catholics, as it is always open season on Catholics."

Consider the evidence Chris. In March alone, and in the UK alone, Bishop Devine of Motherwell spoke of a great gay conspiracy to bring down Christianity, and mocked gay people who attended Holocaust memorial services as trying to align themseleves with other persecuted minorites. He likened himself to Mel Gibson in Braveheart, saying he was up for a fight with those nasty secularists who had the cheek to disagree with his and his Church's world view.

Then Cardinal O'Brien told us scientists were going to create centaurs and minotaurs in their labs, although he has subsequently confessed (to an audience in the PM's home town of Kirkcaldy) to being in need of more education on the embryology bill - put another way, he has admitted that his invocation of Frankenstein's monster was borne out of his own ignorance.

I think Catholics, or at least the hierarchy, do rather bring "open season" on themselves. Do you think that might be because they seem to consider it "open season" on everybody else? What goes around, comes around.

Aside from that, Ben Elton has a point. Perhaps we need an Islamic version of Goodness Gracious Me. Are there Muslim versions of Sanjeev Bhaslar and Meera Syal out there?

[bill]

Faith news and Timesonline are scared too, and don't post many comments about Islam that are aimed at the illogical nature of that faith's beliefs, and which are no different to similar statements about other religions, but don't get past the reviewer.

[Michael Stevens]

I can recall some particularly obscene imam jokes I was told by Muslim friends when I lived in Turkey. So obscene I can't write them here.

[Rick Beekman]

I Believe The "Fear" has more to do with being "politically correct".

Even here in America you rarely see any commentators taking jabs at the Muslims.

I am personally not afraid of any of them. I usually have good relations in buisness with the ones I know. As a Christian I am also not afraid to share the Bible with them if they are curious.

I do not accept their beleifs and not ashamed to tell them so. Jesus Christ is the creator of the Universe.

Allah never died on a cross for our sins. Anyway they can face the East twenty five times a day if they so desire and pray...no results! they are not serving The real and Only God.

[Bill]

Ruth, do you agree that Faith News uses unequal criteria when deciding whether to post letters that discuss Islam's foibles, in contrast to blogs about Christianity, other religions, or theism in general?
Your sensitivity level to what may be considered blasphemy or offensive seems to shift down many levels when Islam is the subject.

(rg writes: no I don't agree, but I don't edit the comments on the faith news blogs or articles, only this one, so I don't get to see what is not posted there. On this one, I've never exercised censorship in the way you've described, although I do censor posts that are excessively offensive or potentially libellous. I am criticised sometimes for being too liberal in allowing vituperative comments, which I fear means that some more sensitive but interesting readers are frightened to post here. I've been trying to exercise a bit more censorship in that area recently, but sometimes it is just difficult because it takes a lot of time and I have to write news and feature articles as well as do this blog. It is very difficult to get right all the time. There is probably some fault in me as well, because maybe what I write or how I write it provokes vituperative comment. So I am trying different styles at the moment to see if I can generate slightly more intellectual debate with less personal abuse. If you have complaints about the editing of the other blogs, they need to be posted on those blogs directly however. We will address them.

Regarding Islam, you don't need me to tell you of the sensitivities surrounding these areas. I've got two stories in the paper today which highlight some of these, one on Ben Elton. So I would dispute that we 'shift down' our sensitivities. But it would be very irresonsible to allow a free-for-all stoking of Islamophobia. That is a fire that is already burning hot enough in this country.)

[Chris Gillibrand]

Before I comment- I am trying to obtain a copy of Bishop Devine's Gonzaga Lecture.

Cardinal O'Brien's reported response reminds me of the not so great Catholic theologian Karl Rahner saying that he went weak at the knees every time a natural scientist came in the room. Personally, I have no such intellectual trepidation, as I am a natural scientist myself and stick to scholastic theology rather more firmly than Karl Rahner ever did.

[bill]

Thanks Ruth, that's heartening to hear. cheers

[JIM]

Rick, if there is only one God, of course they are praying to Him, just not your version of Him, and not to JC as Son of Him.
Many Muslims believe impossible things such as Muhammad being visited by the Angel Gabriel countless times, and travelled with him on a winged steed to Jerusalem to visit Abraham, Moses and Jesus, and numerous other bizarre miracles are attributed to Muhammad, including his ascension into heaven. None of these things happened, but then, Christianity has its own share of crazy beliefs.
If you would all drop the mad beliefs, you'd more easily find common ground.....

[Babbling Brook]

I am all in favour of more intellectual debate. I often notice that threads, originally posted up on the subject of Islam, quickly digress into tangents quite unconnected with the subject. So, while reading a political blog on another publication, I was pleasantly surprised to see an excellent, scholarly, and informative film on Islam posted up by the blogwriter and readers' comments invited (no, it is not 'Fitna'); this particular film, WHAT THE WEST NEEDS TO KNOW, is 1 hr 39 minutes in length and is in English language but with Dutch subtitles. There are, I would add, no jokes in it but then, as the Ayatollah Khomeni helpfully remarked: There is no humour in Islam.

Perhaps you might link it properly, Miss Gledhill, and then invite your readers to comment on it?

www://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8105709395775858867

[andrew holden]

"As the Ayatollah Khomeni helpfully remarked: There is no humour in Islam."

That was just the way he told the jokes. Didn't he also say: "I don't care if my jokes bomb. They go straight to heaven where they get 72 virgin jokes!"

As Omar Marzouk would say, "timing is everything!"

[Andrew Holden]

"if there is only one God, of course they are praying to Him, just not your version of Him.... "

There are lots of opinions and beliefs about dear old Tony Blair but we don't infer from that there are different Tony Blairs wandering around or that he doesn't exist at all. We recognise that perceptions and beliefs can be wrong as well as right and that the only way to find out the truth about the 'real' Tony Blair would be to actually get to know him.

Likewise the fact that Muslims have a slightly/greatly different view of God doesn't lead me to conclude that it isn't the same God we are talking about (or, of course, that he doesn't exist). It's just that one (or indeed both) of us is wrong in some/all of our beliefs.

[Robbo]

Well, he would say that wouldn't he?
Wikipedia has Ben Elton listed as a British Jew.

Bill's comment about your sensitivity level for different religions was interesting Ruth.
I always wondered why you never published any jokes which start "Three men walked into a pub, a Protestant, a Catholic and a Jew".

[Chris Gillibrand]

Bishop Devine's whole speech - will post shortly on this in response to the above post.

[Rick Beekman]

Jim;

You made the following comment regarding Christianity;

"Cristianity has it's own share of crazy beleifs"

Perhaps you could enlighten us with what particular beleifs? Bless you!

[Kate]

"Well, he would say that wouldn't he?
Wikipedia has Ben Elton listed as a British Jew."
(posted by the ubiquitous 'robbo')

And Bob Dylan is a Jewish terrorist!! Yeah!

The list gets longer ... more of those "not nice people" who deserve (in your perversion of 'morality') to be mowed down.

I fear the pseudonym is not sufficient to disguise what is 'bred in the bone' 'robbo'. Same old, same old.... you are SUCH a crashing bore.

[jim]

Rick, crazy, bizarre or unsubstantiated beliefs include:
All angel sightings in the bible and since, creationism, the virgin conception, God having to become man to save the souls he had created, JC as God, doubtful history for the Bethlehem account, the wise men, the star, the census, the murder of the innocents, the Trinity, the Resurrection, Jesus' miracles, the Assumption, the belief that a divine perfect being did all the horrible things he supposedly did in the Old Testament, Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son as anything other than immoral or mad, and a host of other OT stories involving improbable or impossible feats and happenings from Noah to the Exodus and Egypt stories to Lot's wife to the idea that murdering Israelites or anyone since acted in God's name with God's murderous help, the belief in divine intervention anytime let alone in day to day happenings, countless thousands of unsubstantiated miracle claims by average believers and supposed saints, transubstantiation, sacraments, divine grace, most of The Book of Revelation, and the list goes on and on and on.............

[jim]

Rick, crazy, bizarre or unsubstantiated beliefs include:
All angel sightings in the bible and since, creationism, the virgin conception, God having to become man to save the souls he had created, JC as God, doubtful history for the Bethlehem account, the wise men, the star, the census, the murder of the innocents, the Trinity, the Resurrection, Jesus' miracles, the Assumption, the belief that a divine perfect being did all the horrible things he supposedly did in the Old Testament, Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son as anything other than immoral or mad, and a host of other OT stories involving improbable or impossible feats and happenings from Noah to the Exodus and Egypt stories to Lot's wife to the idea that murdering Israelites or anyone since acted in God's name with God's murderous help, the belief in divine intervention anytime let alone in day to day happenings, countless thousands of unsubstantiated miracle claims by average believers and supposed saints, transubstantiation, sacraments, divine grace, most of The Book of Revelation, and the list goes on and on and on.............

[Rick Beekman]

Jim;
WOW! what a list!.

I can Explain Everything I know about if you are willing to read and check it out or we can Move on..Your Choice.
What You Posted; Here is a short list of things I don't Believe Either

The Trinity...Transubstanation...sacraments. All those are inventions of the RCC and not Biblical nor of God.

The "Trinity" was an invention of the Gnostics of Alexandria Egypt first introduced at The council of Nicea in 325 AD. Where the RCC was "officially formed"
The Original TRINITY Is of The Sun God..Isis..Horus...Seb.
Notice on the rear of an RCC priest's Vestments you will see the letters in the center IHS.

Transubstanation is another invention of The Egyptians. They also claimed the "Sun God" could be called down into the Wafer..People would Take it And were told they received the Sun God.
The RCC Switched The belief to Jesus In the wafer.
The Bible teaches that God does not dwell in temples or alike made by Human Hands..Nor any wafer.

Sacraments are another invention of the RCC. The Bible does teach about Water Baptism and Marriage and becoming part of the Ministry of God..Nobody but The RCC calls them "Sacraments" or let's say Bible Teaching Faiths Do Not Teach This.

Everything on your list YOU Mentioned other then the items I mentioned are Biblically True Jim.

As Mentioned We Can Do This Two items at a time since it involves Scripture etc. I'm willing to teach you if you are at least willing to see it. Let me know...Have a Great week!

[jim]

Thanks for the offer Rick. I have great respect for believers of various types, which may seem strange to hear, given my unbelief. I've heard, read and years ago wrestled with various beliefs over the years. I realise that the word "crazy" is emotive and relative. We are all a bit crazy, and all we believe has a personal bent influenced by a myriad of things. There are many believers on these posts, and many whom I know personally in my life, whose lives are a positive reflection of their belief, though I think they should be able to be as moral and committed without their religious beliefs.
As far as biblical accuracy is concerned, I am not an expert, but have read the OT cover to cover more than once, and the NT a lot, and numerous books about them and religion in general, and I suspect much more than most average believers, and find the biblical accounts unconvincing. I've read Lewis, Huxley, and a host of others who believe, but find their arguments puerile and shallow as far as the facts of the NT are concerned. The OT is not a historical document written as facts, and is designed to outline a certain belief.
I didn't even mention Satan, the temptation in the desert, the transfiguration or ascension, and a few other religious gems..............