Anglican tradition is to ordain women says theologian

I like the fact that the only truly 'flying bishop' in the Anglican Communion is a woman. TEC Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori is in England at the moment, ready for the Lambeth Conference. Tomorrow, Sunday, she is preaching at Salisbury if you can get along, although she has some stiff competition with Gene Robinson preaching at St Mary's Putney, also tomorrow. This morning, on Today, US theologian Professor Gary Macy was explaining his theory that the Church ordained women up until the 12th century and that women had episcopal authority until much later. Earlier this week he sent me his entire paper on the subject. I've also put a couple of extracts below.

Macy writes:

'Women in the Middle Ages played a far larger role in the life of the Church than they would in later centuries.  In the early Middle Ages, they performed both sacramental and administrative functions that would be reserved to men after the thirteenth century.  They celebrated the Mass, distributed communion, read the Gospel, heard confessions and preached.  Some abbesses also exercised episcopal power, and indeed, a few were considered bishops.  The powerful Abbess of Las Huelgas in Spain continued to wear her miter and exercise administrative episcopal power until 1874.  This paper will discuss the evidence for these claims.'

'The Council of NÓmes, held in 394, noting that “women seemed to have been assumed into levitical service,” ordered that “such ordination should be undone when it is effected contrary to reason. It should be seen that no one so presume in the future.” It is quite likely that the ministry of women to the Eucharist was being discussed here, although some scholars have argued that it was the diaconate rather than the presbyterate that the Council intended to forbid. Ninety years later, in 494, Pope Gelasius in a letter to the bishops of southern Italy and Sicily also spoke out against bishops who were allowing women to serve at the altar. Gelasius had heard that “women are confirmed to minister at the sacred altars and to perform all matters imputed only to the service of the male sex and for which women are not competent.'

The full essay, Women and the Shaping of Catholicism, is to be published by Liguori Press in December later this year. (Apologies to Professor Macy for posting it here prematurely.)

Comments

[J James]

Well the higher she flies the closer to the sun so lets hope that she crashes and burns sooner rather than later so the world is a better place ...

[saint]

After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.-- Luke 8:1-3

Yeah right American Observer. *rolls eyes*

[Dante]

"Fortunately Roman Catholics have an infallible pope and a mafgisterium to correct us if our understanding and perception of Holy Scripture or historical tradition is incorrect."

I'd rather trust a New Testament scholar. (& I'm a Catholic)

[Stretch Cole]

To KM,
You are not the only one that realizes that Men have control on the word of God in the material world, but no control in the spiritual world where the Holy Spirit acts through all. It would seem preposterous that God would confine the discernment, teaching, studying, and preaching of his word to half of his human creation.

[alan]

Do we really need female bishops?
About as much as we need male bishops - hardly.

[William Sulik]

By George, Ms. Gledhill - you may have stumbled on to the real reason the ECUSA Presiding Bishop deposed Bishop William Cox - she wanted to be the only flying Bishop in America!

More on Bishop Cox the pilot here:

http://tinyurl.com/5ezyxc

:)

[robroy]

For those of you who couldn't make it to her Ms Schori, the text of her sermons are posted here: http://tinyurl.com/schori. As I predicted above, the superficiality and inanity is breathtakingly mind-numbing.

[Stephen Marsden]

Ruth

I wonder if Alex, who calls the nice, reasonable and learned Fr Malloch a 'sexist pig' would care to expand on what precisely he's getting at? To respond thus to an entirely gentle post reminding us all of the doctrine of reception seems a little harsh.

(For these purposes, I'm assuming that Alex is an Alexander rather than an Alexandra, on the entirely spurious (not to say sexist) grounds that a lady could never be so gratuitously offensive - therefore it must be a bloke . . .)

[David Malloch]

Alex,
Gary Macy has written a paper which shows how the church has consistently condemned the sacramental acts of women. I have noted that. You believe that makes me a "sexist pig". What does such logic make you? A member of general synod perhaps??

[Rick Beekman]

Robert Ian Williams;
You Stated; "Fortunetly Roman Catholics have an infallible Pope......"

You need to read this Robert; "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God". The Only One who is "Infallible" is Jesus Christ/God. Even Mary his Mother had to receive The spirit of God at the first Christian/conversion Service (Acts 2). Read your Catholic bible it's all in there...

[Dr. Mike Homfray]

All this rubbish about what happened in the past. Couldn't care less. The only thing which should count is whether not having women bishops can be justified on rational grounds. If you rely on anything else including so called theology or 'tradition', you lose the argument.

[Priscilla]

I love how the "orthodox" begin foaming at the mouth without having even read an UNpublished book, scrabbling to defend something they have little to no information about.

Their "Christian" mien towards ++Katharine Jefforts-Schori and Professor Macy gives no credit to their supposed holiness.

How silly Christianity is being made to look by these supposed adherents!

[Christopher]

Dear Fr Windsor

I believe abbesses still are allowed to bless members of their own community. I was told that Catholic fathers could also bless their own children, but I have to confess I have never seen it...unless perhaps a discreet cross made with the thumb on the forehead counts as a blessing ( a sacramental...not a full sacrament but something similar ). I think in the case of abesses it was the full-blown sign of the cross the way priests do with the flat palm with fingers fully extended held at right angles to the body. I wonder if they are entitled to do the triple crosses Roman Catholic bishops do (mitred abbots who are not actually bishops but allowed to wear full pontificalia in their own abbeys, certainly do the triple signing). In the Eastern orthodox church a bishop blesses with a candlesticks, sloshing molten wax everywhere. One candlestick has three candles signifying the three persons of the Trinity and the other has two to signify the hypostatic union of man and God in Christ.

[robroy]

Tim writes, "Also, Bill Atwood has a pilot's license, but perhaps a lot of people would not recognise him as being part of the Anglican Communion."

Of course, Ms Schori has now been un-recognized by over half of the world's Anglicans (with Mr Hilz) and that same majority recognizes Bp Atwood as true Anglicans.

[An American Observer]

Never fear, KM. I support women's ordination. In 30 years, I've met exactly one woman priest who should not have been ordained. I have also met one male priest who should not have been ordained. In both cases, it was because the persons in question appeared to be in it for mere ego gratification, not for service to the Church. The rest of the women priests I have known have ranged from acceptable to outstanding, just like the men.

There's a good reason why Jesus chose only male disciples. In his day, almost all women were in arranged marriages and pregnant with their first child by their mid teens. Those who weren't (like Mary and Martha) would still have violated the Mediterranean "honor" code if they had traveled with a group of unrelated men. It was a strictly practical consideration in a society very different from ours.

[Fr. Van Windsor]

I don't think it is necessary to skew history in order to believe that women should be ordained within the Christian community. To do so only cheapens the process, and then the event when it happens. I once remember being told of an Abbess who used to give blessings, and when she died they continued to raise her gloved hand in the form of a blessing. Novel idea perhaps, but not the stuff tradition is built on, nor very hygienic-- if even true. If it is not certain, it should not be expressed as truth, nor is it a good idea to make it a foundation to grow on.

[Alex]

David Malloch | 12 Jul 2008 11:27:30,

Sexist pig - why not just make women walk 20 paces behind their male counterparts and have done with it eh?

[David Crawford]

If she is a theologian I am the Queen of England. Look at her background. None !!!! She claimed to be head of a seminary which turned out to be non existant.She is the new age Anglican as a second career person. Her reason for entering the ministry was that all the grants in her chosen field were gone. Perhaps if she had some training and actually read the Bible she could convert to being a Christian rather than being a United Nations advisor.Or perhaps a lawyer since she has more experience suing than preaching. Shalom !!!!

[KM]

Is there ANYONE apart from me on this blog who thinks that women's ordination is a good idea?

I feel like an unreformed alcoholic in a teetotaller's support group.

[Robert Ian Williams]

Fortunately Roman Catholics have an infallible pope and a mafgisterium to correct us if our understanding and perception of Holy Scripture or historical tradition is incorrect.

[Gary Macy]

I sent my paper to Ms. Gledhill for her personal use. It should not have been posted as it is due for publication by Ligouri Press in a volume entitled "Women and the Shaping of Catholicism" to be published in December of 2008. Liguori Press owns the rights to this paper and it should not appear without their permission.

Also, I did not say on the Today Program that "the Church has always, until relatively recently, ordained women and that its refusal to do so now is unorthodox." I said that the Church ordained women until the 12th century. I said some abbesses had episcopal powers until much later. It was not unorthodox for the Church to stop ordaining women.

(rg notes: I've corrected the post accordingly. Professor Macy gave no indication in his email to which the paper was attached that it was for my 'personal use' only, or that I should not publish it. On the contrary, he indicated that he had delivered it in a public forum the month before, and appeared eager to have his views disseminated, even to the point of appearing on the Today programme. Nevertheless, I have removed the paper. Normally when people send something to a journalist, unless they say otherwise, they do so in the hope or expectation that it will be published!)

[Ramon Rodriguez]

God bless Gary Macy. He sounds like a good decent man. But I feel great compassion for the students that have to sit through his lectures about a "few women" and "some bishops" over centuries and the reason we do not have more information is some conspiracy theory. It is deja vu all over again: I've had professors like him.

[VC]

Unfamiliar claims, these are. But there's certainly no doubt that English ecclesiastical life has often failed since the [testosterone-charged] dissolution of the monasteries to see the work of deacons, monks and nuns as good, distinct and useful. The diaconate is rarely more than a stepping-stone to the ordinand's real goal, priesthood; were it otherwise, deacons and deaconesses both would have a greater place in the English Church, and more of those deaconesses would find their vocation without feeling the tug to priesthood -- a different vocation. It's a similar story for monks and nuns, who are sadly thin on the ground these days; how can more than a few of those whose lives are suited to such magnificent service ever discover this to be so?

We all face this predicament together because the Church has failed to reckon with what/who the human being is in full -- in both forms, male and female. We are not made aware in any practical, down-to-earth way of our theandric nature as God's children made in His image. Yet without such a reckoning, the Church is neither able fully to appreciate the men and women who member it nor able to shepherd its members, male and female, toward the fulfillment of their distinct vocations, equally glorious in God's eyes, different yet complementary. Instead, we have a tragically impoverished theology of priesthood, which exalts priests (even while we complain about them) as if they are different or special, whereas in fact, by orthodox Christian theology, priests are also part of the laity, carrying out a specialised and ordained role within the High Priesthood of Jesus Christ, whose risen Body the whole if His laity populates and animates by God's grace. Devout women, utterly abandoned in this scene, often start to feel that they need a slice of that exultation in order to have value in the Church, or even before God. It's false, but desperate measures for desperate times, one might say.

Yet we are not desperate, because we have Christ, the Holy Spirit and holy tradition... and we still have these, even when we attempt in our desperation to abandon them! God is merciful. If only we had mercy enough to embrace men and women for what they are in full: not the same, yet gloriously complementary in God's full and relational image!

[Conchúr]

Thanks for that Ruth. I needed a good laugh.

[Shaun Clarkson]

I very much doubt K J S is the only flying bishop. I remember the recently retired Bishop of Sheffield telling us that at the last Lambeth Conference his study group ranged from an Australian bishop who got around his outback diocese by plane to a Burmese one who had to walk to reach his clergy.

[saint]

Bwahahaha. I saw your blog post title and the photo of KJS and thought surely you didn't think she was a theologian. I actually wish some journos delve into her dodgy CV and theological training - or lack thereof.

[Chris Gillibrand]

Sed contra- but to the contrary.

The Catholic Encyclopedia deals with the "encroachment on sacerdotal office" by Abbesses.

"Abbesses have no spiritual jurisdiction, and can exercise no authority that is in any way connected with the power of the keys or of orders. During the Middle Ages, however, attempts were not infrequently made to usurp this spiritual power of the priesthood, and we read of Abbesses who besides being guilty of many minor encroachments on the functions of the sacerdotal office, presumed to interfere even in the administration of the sacrament of penance and confessed their nuns. Thus, in the Capitularies of Charlemagne, mention is made of "certain Abbesses, who contrary to the established discipline of the Church of God, presume to bless the people, impose their hands on them, make the sign of the cross on the foreheads of men, and confer the veil on virgins, employing during that ceremony the blessing reserved exclusively to the priest," all of which practice the bishops are urged to forbid absolutely in their respective dioceses. (Thomassin, "Vetus et Nova Ecclesae Disciplina," pars I, lib. II, xii, no. 17.)

The "Monastieum Cisterciense" records the stern inhibition which Innocent III, in 1220, placed upon Cistercian Abbesses of Burgos and Palencia in Spain, "who blessed their religious, heard the confession of their sins, and when reading the Gospel, presumed publicly to preach." (Thomassin, op. cit., pars I, lib. III. xlix, no. 4.) The Pope characterized the intrusion of these women as a thing "unheard of, most indecorous, and highly preposterous." Dom Martene, the Benedictine savant, in his work "De Antiquis Ecclesiae Ritibus," speaks of other Abbesses who likewish confessed their nuns, and adds, not without a touch of humour, that "these Abbesses had evidently overrated their spiritual powers a trifle." And as late as 1658, the Sacred Congregation of Rites categorically condemned the acts of the Abbess of Fontevrault in France, who of her own authority, obliged the monks and nuns of her obedience to recite offices, say Masses, and observe rites and ceremonies which had never been sanctioned or approved of by Rome. (Analecta Juris Pontificii, VII, col. 348.) In this connection it must, however, be observed, that when the older monastic rules prescribe confession to the superior, they do not refer to sacramental confession, but to the "chapter of faults" or the culpa, at which the religious accuse themselves of ordinary external fault patent to all, and of minor infractions of the rule. This "confession" may be made either privately to the superior or publicly in the chapter-house; no absolution is given and the penance assigned is merely disciplinary. The "chapter of faults" is a form of religious exercise still practised in all the monasteries of the ancient orders."

It goes on to describe the case of Las Huelgas- (where King Edward I was married and one should remember a Royal Monastery). The Council of Trent effectively ended the prestige of this Abbess.

Some German Lutherans retained Abbesses when communities left the Catholic Church. A picture can be seen here- scroll down.

[Julia]

Ruth,
If you fancy her so much, then perhaps we can loan her to you (indefinitely)! Just remember that when she's not flying, she's litigating.

I know female bishops are a novelty in Merrie Olde but keep your head on straight about this. There are some Iron Maidens (like Schori) and there are some true disciples who care more about serving God's people than they do about political agendae. If you'd like to meet one of the latter types, DO look up +Geralyn Wolf from Rhode Island. She is truly a gift to our church.

[Chris Gillibrand]

Sed contra- but to the contrary.

The Catholic Encyclopedia deals with the "encroachment on sacerdotal office" by Abbesses.

"Abbesses have no spiritual jurisdiction, and can exercise no authority that is in any way connected with the power of the keys or of orders. During the Middle Ages, however, attempts were not infrequently made to usurp this spiritual power of the priesthood, and we read of Abbesses who besides being guilty of many minor encroachments on the functions of the sacerdotal office, presumed to interfere even in the administration of the sacrament of penance and confessed their nuns. Thus, in the Capitularies of Charlemagne, mention is made of "certain Abbesses, who contrary to the established discipline of the Church of God, presume to bless the people, impose their hands on them, make the sign of the cross on the foreheads of men, and confer the veil on virgins, employing during that ceremony the blessing reserved exclusively to the priest," all of which practice the bishops are urged to forbid absolutely in their respective dioceses. (Thomassin, "Vetus et Nova Ecclesae Disciplina," pars I, lib. II, xii, no. 17.)

The "Monastieum Cisterciense" records the stern inhibition which Innocent III, in 1220, placed upon Cistercian Abbesses of Burgos and Palencia in Spain, "who blessed their religious, heard the confession of their sins, and when reading the Gospel, presumed publicly to preach." (Thomassin, op. cit., pars I, lib. III. xlix, no. 4.) The Pope characterized the intrusion of these women as a thing "unheard of, most indecorous, and highly preposterous." Dom Martene, the Benedictine savant, in his work "De Antiquis Ecclesiae Ritibus," speaks of other Abbesses who likewish confessed their nuns, and adds, not without a touch of humour, that "these Abbesses had evidently overrated their spiritual powers a trifle." And as late as 1658, the Sacred Congregation of Rites categorically condemned the acts of the Abbess of Fontevrault in France, who of her own authority, obliged the monks and nuns of her obedience to recite offices, say Masses, and observe rites and ceremonies which had never been sanctioned or approved of by Rome. (Analecta Juris Pontificii, VII, col. 348.) In this connection it must, however, be observed, that when the older monastic rules prescribe confession to the superior, they do not refer to sacramental confession, but to the "chapter of faults" or the culpa, at which the religious accuse themselves of ordinary external fault patent to all, and of minor infractions of the rule. This "confession" may be made either privately to the superior or publicly in the chapter-house; no absolution is given and the penance assigned is merely disciplinary. The "chapter of faults" is a form of religious exercise still practised in all the monasteries of the ancient orders."

It goes on to describe the case of Las Huelgas- (where King Edward I was married and one should remember a Royal Monastery). The Council of Trent effectively ended the prestige of this Abbess.

Some German Lutherans retained Abbesses when communities left the Catholic Church. A picture can be seen here- scroll down.

[Paul D'Mello]

I find it interesting that Macy is quoting the RC Canon Law example of the Abbess of Las Huelgas, as this was the same example, alongside that of the Uniate Churches, that inspired the founder of Opus Dei to develop the idea of a Personal Prelature - a prelature that includes Female Directors. The irony for, me as a non-Anglican, is that the Anglo-Catholics were basically asking the Synod for an Anglican version of personal prelature based on their traditional beliefs and conscience, but were seemingly denied this - it is stange that a religion that asks the law to give them freedom of conscience, be it an anti-abortion doctor or registrar, but be so uncharitable and deny members within their group the same level of freedom of conscience.

[Tim]

Katharine may be the only currently serving bishop to have a pilot's license (I'm not sure if she is or not) but she's certainly not the first.

Here's a lovely story about Tony Hall-Matthews who used to fly around northern Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/legends/stories/5_1.htm

Also, Bill Atwood has a pilot's license, but perhaps a lot of people would not recognise him as being part of the Anglican Communion.

[Father Dean A. Einerson]

Thank you for your unrivaled coverage of the synod and for your insightful analysis of its results and effects.

I wonder, after the appearance of the "adaptation" of Garrison Keillor's hymn to upper midwestern Lutherans by an envious Episcopalian on June 17, if this is not another such "adaptation" by someone eager to conform history to his notions of what it ought to have been.

Father Dean A. Einerson+
Rhinelander, Wisconsin, USA

[John Mark]

It's amazing what woolly, wishful thinking some academics get away with these days. One wonders whether this man obtained his professorship over the internet for $50, just as one can be "ordained" in that way.

If this is the best that a biased researcher can come up with, we can safely assume that there is no argument in favour of women's ordination from tradition. It seems there is no straw that Macy finds too thin to clutch. His examples are exposed in his own treatise as maverick. The opinion of a bishop who is capable of ordaining someone by mistake is regarded as almost "ex cathedra". That an abbess could hear confession is not conclusive, as this sacrament emerged and developed over centuries. Many lay monks heard confession, so nuns hearing confession is hardly surprising.

To this day, the wives of Greek priests have the honorific title of "presbytera", with no sacramental implications. A likely explanation is that this is an ancient custom.

It seems to me that the position of abbesses is one the strongest arguments in history *against* the ordination of women to the priesthood. Many of these abbesses were clearly formidable and authoritative (and authoritarian!) women. I pity the poor priests who had to be their chaplains; it would have been so much easier to allow the abbess to be a priest to her own household. To use her authority as evidence of episcopacy is to miss the point - one might just as easily deduce that Lady Catherine de Burgh of "Pride and Prejudice" was a bishop, given her powers of patronage.

The Church honours at least two Empresses in Constantinople, yet it has never sanctioned female celebrants even within an all-female convent. Citing a few maverick instances, where most of the evidence comes from the banning of the practice, doesn't change that.

[don bosco]

Surely - if this were true, certainly in the Catholic Church it would have required a Papal document.

I wonder if there is evidence in those archives which prove this fantasy.

[robroy]

Shoddy journalism. A few scattered incidences of women in various roles in the church, most of which were condemned and put a stop to at the time. No examples given in England. Hardly relevant to the current debate and hardly "Anglican tradition."

I do hope that people go see Katherine Jefferts Schori. Inanities and slipshod, superficial theology. It is simply mind-boggling that someone so singularly unqualified could be elected as presiding bishop in the American church. It certainly shows the depraved state the Episcopal church.

(Never a rector of a church. As bishop of Nevada, she managed to shrink the membership by 10% in the fastest growing state in the union placing her performance dead last in terms of population adjusted growth. And now the Episcopal denomination is the fastest declining in America. Great credentials!)

[John]

How utterly barmy! There is no evidence whatsoever throughout Church history of women serving as priests or as celebrants of the Eucharist. Some clutch at the straw of ambiguous early church art, and others at equally ambiguous tomb inscriptions, but nobody has so far attempted entirely to rewrite history itself on such a blatant scale.

No doubt it will soon be a sacking offence in the US to doubt the new version of reality advanced by this writer.

[David Malloch]

Ruth, thank you so much for posting this. It is a very clear analysis and confirms what I have always expected: That throughout church history the sacramental ministry of women has always been contrary to the church's teaching and has consistently been condemned as such.

[KM]

It's always quite fun when history turns out not to back the traditionalist side of the argument.